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  • Good For Secretary Spencer

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ex...cid=spartandhp

    U.S. Navy Secretary Richard Spencer said on Friday a Navy SEAL convicted of battlefield misconduct should face a board of peers weighing whether to oust him from the elite force, despite President Donald Trump's assertion that he not be expelled.

    "I believe the process matters for good order and discipline," Spencer told Reuters, weighing in on a confrontation between Trump and senior Navy officials over the outcome of a high-profile war-crimes case.

    A military jury in July convicted Special Operations Chief Edward Gallagher of illegally posing for pictures with the corpse of an Islamic State fighter while Gallagher was deployed to Iraq in 2017.

    The jury acquitted him of murder in the detainee's death, and he was sentenced to a demotion in rank and pay grade, but not prison time.

    Last Friday, Trump intervened in the case, ordering the Navy to restore Gallagher's rank and pay and clearing the way for him to retire on a full pension.
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

  • #2
    Third thread on the same subject......

    I doesn't matter what anyone says. The power to pardon is in the Constitution. The only way to change that is through an amendment.

    We get it millions of leftist hate Trump but that doesn't mean that the Constitution should be thrown out.
    "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Nichols View Post
      Third thread on the same subject......

      I doesn't matter what anyone says. The power to pardon is in the Constitution. The only way to change that is through an amendment.

      We get it millions of leftist hate Trump but that doesn't mean that the Constitution should be thrown out.
      The power to pardon is in the Constitution.

      However nothing is said about how to use it, except that it cannot be used in cases of impeachment. Issuing a pardon requires good judgment, and Trump has never exercised good judgment while in office. And, again, just because he can do something doesn't mean that he should.

      What he has done here is prejudicial to good order and discipline.
      We are not now that strength which in old days
      Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
      Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
      To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Massena View Post

        The power to pardon is in the Constitution.
        Everyone that has put on the uniform or assumed office has sworn to protect and defend the Constitution.

        Why does the Constitution not matter when it protects Trump?

        "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Nichols View Post

          Everyone that has put on the uniform or assumed office has sworn to protect and defend the Constitution.

          Why does the Constitution not matter when it protects Trump?
          Where does the Constitution 'protect' Trump? Hasn't Trump sworn to 'protect and defend' the US Constitution? He isn't doing a very good job of it, now is he?
          We are not now that strength which in old days
          Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
          Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
          To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Massena View Post

            Where does the Constitution 'protect' Trump? Hasn't Trump sworn to 'protect and defend' the US Constitution? He isn't doing a very good job of it, now is he?
            The Constitution grants the president power to pardon, both civil and military.

            This has nothing to do with protecting Trump, this is straight up protecting the Constitution that you and I swore to protect.

            This is one time that we should live up to our oath.
            "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Nichols View Post

              The Constitution grants the president power to pardon, both civil and military.

              This has nothing to do with protecting Trump, this is straight up protecting the Constitution that you and I swore to protect.

              This is one time that we should live up to our oath.
              I've lived up to and been loyal to the oath that I took. Trump most definitely has not.
              We are not now that strength which in old days
              Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
              Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
              To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

              Comment


              • #8
                Trump is Commander and Chief of the military and has the power to pardon. Like it or not, Admirals take orders from him, not the other way around.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Massena View Post

                  Where does the Constitution 'protect' Trump? ?
                  The Constitution is saying that the person of the potus is inviolable,as long he is potus .That means that no court can indict/condemn the potus .That means also that no one is equal under the law : the potus has porerogatives no one else has .

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                    The Constitution is saying that the person of the potus is inviolable,as long he is potus .That means that no court can indict/condemn the potus .That means also that no one is equal under the law : the potus has porerogatives no one else has .
                    Please point out in the Constitution where it states that.
                    We are not now that strength which in old days
                    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Massena View Post

                      Please point out in the Constitution where it states that.
                      Article II, Section 2 clearly states that the POTUS can pardon both civil and military.

                      You should read this section of the Constitution, it might help you understand that an admiral can't overturn a POTUS pardon. Hope that helps you.
                      "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                        Article II, Section 2 clearly states that the POTUS can pardon both civil and military.

                        You should read this section of the Constitution, it might help you understand that an admiral can't overturn a POTUS pardon. Hope that helps you.
                        First, you're not responding to what I wrote, not the subject being discussed.

                        And I have read the Constitution. Perhaps you should revisit it.

                        And the article is not referring to an admiral, but the Secretary of the Navy.
                        We are not now that strength which in old days
                        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Massena View Post

                          First, you're not responding to what I wrote, not the subject being discussed.
                          Check the title of the thread, that will give you a clue as to why I posted those facts.

                          Originally posted by Massena View Post
                          And I have read the Constitution. Perhaps you should revisit it.
                          If you have, as you claim to.....why start a thread about SECNAV clearly doing an unconstitutional act?

                          Is it because you hate Trump that the Constitution doesn't matter in this instance or are you just towing the party line again?

                          Originally posted by Massena View Post
                          And the article is not referring to an admiral, but the Secretary of the Navy.
                          Oh....okay, so now I am responding to the subject.....do try to make up your mind.

                          "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                            Check the title of the thread, that will give you a clue as to why I posted those facts.
                            Sorry, but this response makes little, if any, sense.

                            Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                            If you have, as you claim to.....why start a thread about SECNAV clearly doing an unconstitutional act?
                            And which ‘unconstitutional act’ is SecNav guilty of?

                            Originally posted by Nichols View Post


                            Is it because you hate Trump that the Constitution doesn't matter in this instance or are you just towing the party line again?

                            Since I don’t belong to a political party, how can I ‘tow the party line’? Your ability at obfuscation and misrepresentation are indeed spectacular.

                            I have never implied nor stated that the Constitution does not matter. Nor am I questioning the Constitution here. What I am stating is that Trump is wrong to interfere in the internal working of the military services something which he has no experience of. His judgment is lacking here and he certainly has no ‘special trust and confidence’ in the judgment of senior military leaders. That will cause problems with the armed forces down the line and will interfere with national security, something Trump obviously has no concern with or about.

                            Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                            Oh....okay, so now I am responding to the subject.....do try to make up your mind.
                            What are you talking about? You are making no sense once again.

                            Do you actually understand what SecNav's issue is, along with Admiral Greene and others?

                            Last edited by Massena; 24 Nov 19, 11:57.
                            We are not now that strength which in old days
                            Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                            Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                            To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pe...cid=spartandhp

                              Defense Secretary Mark Esper on Sunday fired the Navy’s top official for allegedly proposing a deal with the White House behind Esper’s back to resolve the matter of a Navy SEAL whose case has been championed by President Donald Trump.
                              We are not now that strength which in old days
                              Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                              Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                              To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                              Comment

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