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Window of Tesla’s “bulletproof” truck shatters at unveiling

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  • Achtung Baby
    replied
    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

    Wrt the shattered window..Thats what Musk says though, are we to believe him? And I must say for a multi billion dollar company to not run multiple tests making sure the window wont break was a surprise. I like you but I dont like Tesla, and I dont like the sight of the Tesla plant in my city because its a plant that provides non union jobs in an area that used to provided way more jobs that were pro union.

    Well I dont think that most anti Telsa folks are immature. They have very real concerns such as can Tesla do what it said which was bring in good jobs to Americans. Tesla plants have not brought in the huge #s of jobs that past Auto or steel companies have been able to bring in.

    What can I say, I also dont like electric cars. I like the loud noise of a big gas engine car, like a V8 Mustang. I have nothing against folks that drive the Toyota Prius though, Im not against Americans choosing to buy a Toyota. Electric cars are not my thing. But aside from my opinion I can see that Tesla has not provided the types of jobs that other manufactures have been able to do.
    The proof of the glass not breaking is out there, it’s not debatable... they now know why it broke, a simple engineering fix will do. I’m not a fan of it actually, because being able to break glass in an emergency situation is essential I believe.
    As for liking noisy cars, that’s not going away anytime soon. We have one notable car critic here in Oz who absolutely hates Elon and his bullshit. After one week of driving a electric Hyundai he readily admits EVs have a refinement that is unmatched, despite the glaring deficiencies that come with it.

    Leave a comment:


  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Stonewall, you have to understand what Musk is really doing here. Every, like, six or so months he comes out with a new publicity stunt for Tesla. The Tesla semi-tractor, the Tesla pick up truck, etc., etc., etc.
    The reason he's doing this, and taking advanced orders on these things is to stay ahead of bankruptcy of the company. He's not the first conman to come along with this sort of pie-in-the-sky dream of making it big. He's just better positioned to keep the house of cards from crashing down. Bernie Madoff was the same way.

    Look at past failures that simply didn't have the capital Musk has to keep the fraud going:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davis_Motorcar_Company

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tucker_48

    Tesla motors is almost, but not quite, a Ponzi scheme. It's never turned a profit. It's way behind on production. Musk rolls out new ideas and models raking in cash for future sales and success. At some point, that's all going to come crashing down in failure. Only the government can operate for an extended period at a loss and even the government eventually has that catch up with them in the form of hyperinflation and economic depression.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by Achtung Baby View Post

    I’m merely pointing out that it was an simple engineering issue, yeah the timing sucked but it hasn’t stopped the free publicity. And lastly I’m sorry but I’m not getting into the other issues you’ve pointed out. The amount of immature animosity and false reporting of electric car performance etc shown here only highlights how futile it is to discuss.
    Wrt the shattered window..Thats what Musk says though, are we to believe him? And I must say for a multi billion dollar company to not run multiple tests making sure the window wont break was a surprise. I like you but I dont like Tesla, and I dont like the sight of the Tesla plant in my city because its a plant that provides non union jobs in an area that used to provided way more jobs that were pro union.

    Well I dont think that most anti Telsa folks are immature. They have very real concerns such as can Tesla do what it said which was bring in good jobs to Americans. Tesla plants have not brought in the huge #s of jobs that past Auto or steel companies have been able to bring in.

    What can I say, I also dont like electric cars. I like the loud noise of a big gas engine car, like a V8 Mustang. I have nothing against folks that drive the Toyota Prius though, Im not against Americans choosing to buy a Toyota. Electric cars are not my thing. But aside from my opinion I can see that Tesla has not provided the types of jobs that other manufactures have been able to do.

    Leave a comment:


  • Achtung Baby
    replied
    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

    Well I have nothing against anyone. So I don’t want you to take this wrong but I will say that this was once again a massive Public display of incompetence by Tesla. There is this and other posters pointed out there are people who have ordered Tesla cars and who have been waiting upwards of 6 to 9 months just to receive their car. That’s not acceptable


    I will say this though, I don’t like tesla. I don’t like the idea of electric cars taking over. I like the feel of a V6 engine gas powered. I like the sites of big pick up trucks in the United States of America.

    I do know that a few hundred Americans work for Tesla in my area ... and I’m happy they have a job. I just hope that they don’t lose everything in a year or two when the real possibility of Tesla falling apart comes into fruition.


    I don’t know how it is for people around the world but Tesla is a so-called American company led by Europeans. So here in Buffalo we have this Tesla plant where it claims it’s an American car company but all the CEOs are Europeans and constantly Europeans are being flown in to check on the plant. Which is no problem but the fact is tesla for example claimed it would bring many jobs to various areas. Well I live in New York state and our government gave Tesla $1 billion of taxpayer money to invest in a building that used to employ 15 to 20,000 Americans at I believe Bethlehem steel. The plant tesla has in buffalo today maybe employes 200 people with no union jobs, And a recent audit has shown the Tesla building to be worth nowhere near the $1 billion that the New York State government has given them a few years ago.

    I also had a bad experience with some Tesla employers that came to Buffalo from Europe they were rude people. And just look at the facts look at how low the Tesla pay is compared to what Ford and General Motors employees used to make.

    I can tell you that at the buffalo plant tesla employees start off at $17 an hour without a union. Compare that to the 1970s when you first started at Ford motor company you would get $32 an hour after 90 days on the job and you would be in the union. Talk about a massive difference. I also feel that my arguments are very pro American here I am arguing for American steel and auto companies and I’m arguing that we need to bring back union jobs that pay Americans a fair wage. Tesla does not pay a fair wage they are the bad guys right now

    Maybe other people have a different experience with Tesla but I have a bad one. And the biggest reason is because Tesla does not provide union jobs and tesla took over a building that used to provide tens of thousands of jobs to Americans but now only provides a few hundred.
    I’m merely pointing out that it was an simple engineering issue, yeah the timing sucked but it hasn’t stopped the free publicity. And lastly I’m sorry but I’m not getting into the other issues you’ve pointed out. The amount of immature animosity and false reporting of electric car performance etc shown here only highlights how futile it is to discuss.

    Leave a comment:


  • inevtiab1e
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

    No, you can't. Once a battery has cycled so many times, it loses its ability to hold a charge. There can also be other issues that occur from the normal chemical reactions in one such as "treeing." Electrolyte gets used and spent with each charge. Improper charging and over use can shorten the life of a battery.

    When the battery will no longer hold a charge, you have to disassemble it, and essentially manufacture a new battery from the components. You can't "recycle" it in situ.
    And, no, battery technology is pretty much a complete science. You aren't going to discover new types as you are limited by the periodic table and elements available. It's that simple. The last battery invented was the Lithium ion and that was in 1980, or about 40 years ago.



    As you can see here, batteries aren't really making new technological leaps. The Lithium-Sulphur battery dates back to the 1960's invention-wise but is only now really being looked at because of both chemical reaction limitations and they are relatively unsafe without serious associated electronic controls to prevent a number of bad things from happening with them.

    Chemistry and physics trumps unicorns and rainbows.
    A company in Canada is currently 'renewing' spent batteries to 100%. Spent EV batteries still hold 70% of their capacity, which is why the batteries are moved to different industries and not put in landfills. It was mentioned in the link I provided. The technology will continue to improve and move to different ingredients. It's inevitab1e.

    Your chart shows what I said, the technology for energy storage and the ingredients involved will continue to change and get better.

    Leave a comment:


  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post
    You don't have to remanufacture a new battery. You can recycle the spent battery to nearly 100% capacity. Battery technologies will continue to emerge and become more efficient/less costly. That is a given.

    Just look at where batteries have gone from in their past. That will continue, newer technologies will emerge.

    Take a look at this article to see what's currently being done globally about the problem
    '
    https://www.instituteforenergyresear...d-repurposing/
    No, you can't. Once a battery has cycled so many times, it loses its ability to hold a charge. There can also be other issues that occur from the normal chemical reactions in one such as "treeing." Electrolyte gets used and spent with each charge. Improper charging and over use can shorten the life of a battery.

    When the battery will no longer hold a charge, you have to disassemble it, and essentially manufacture a new battery from the components. You can't "recycle" it in situ.
    And, no, battery technology is pretty much a complete science. You aren't going to discover new types as you are limited by the periodic table and elements available. It's that simple. The last battery invented was the Lithium ion and that was in 1980, or about 40 years ago.



    As you can see here, batteries aren't really making new technological leaps. The Lithium-Sulphur battery dates back to the 1960's invention-wise but is only now really being looked at because of both chemical reaction limitations and they are relatively unsafe without serious associated electronic controls to prevent a number of bad things from happening with them.

    Chemistry and physics trumps unicorns and rainbows.

    Leave a comment:


  • inevtiab1e
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Batteries have a working life at the end of which you have to manufacture a new battery from scratch, even when using recycled materials. It's that simple.
    You don't have to remanufacture a new battery. You can recycle the spent battery to nearly 100% capacity. Battery technologies will continue to emerge and become more efficient/less costly. That is a given.

    Just look at where batteries have gone from in their past. That will continue, newer technologies will emerge.

    Take a look at this article to see what's currently being done globally about the problem
    '
    https://www.instituteforenergyresear...d-repurposing/

    Leave a comment:


  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post
    Vehicle manufacturers are already working on this. What to do after that 5-10 year period. Currently across the world, we're seeing these spent batteries being used in multiple other applications. Power storage for homes, businesses. Powering street lights, grid batteries for electricity. Lot's of backup applications. A new and emerging economic field that will create a 'circle' of use for these batteries.

    Everything we're talking about is already being done. Your statement was an opinion if you ask me.
    Well, I didn't ask you. Battery technology has niche uses. It simply isn't a technology that has long-term, continuous use application. You can't get around the chemistry and physics of how batteries work. Batteries have a working life at the end of which you have to manufacture a new battery from scratch, even when using recycled materials. It's that simple.

    Leave a comment:


  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post
    The technology is already catching up to the problem and turning a problem into another usable resource. This will only continue to increase.
    Battery technology is largely a settled science. You can't change the qualities of the various elements. You can't get more than about 2 VDC from a battery cell. The chemical reactions that make batteries work are well understood and no ground shaking new revelations are going to occur.
    That large batteries take hours at best to be recharged makes them largely impractical except for intermittent use. The manufacturing process from raw material extraction to usable product isn't going to suddenly become more economically feasible. Batteries are expensive of the power they produce.
    Recycling batteries is simply an add-on to their expense rather than something to be celebrated.

    On the whole, battery car technology is a dead end.

    Leave a comment:


  • inevtiab1e
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

    What's that got to do with the total implacability of use while in service? The service life is also a problem. Typically, batteries last about 5 years in use in electric vehicles. This can vary some depending on the climate they're used in (heat in particular will shorten the life) and the manner in which they are charged and used. If you charge a battery car regularly at a fraction of the whole charge, the battery tends to get a "memory" and you end up having a very shortened range per charge.
    The other problem is replacement cost. Replacing a battery pack in one of these vehicles is akin to replacing the engine and transmission in a gasoline vehicle. That is, it costs upwards of $10,000 + to do it. That makes it uneconomical to bother to replace them. Better to scrap the vehicle and make a new one. That's great for manufacturers but terrible for the resale market and those looking for low price vehicles because of limited budgets.

    In a very real sense, battery cars are biased against the poor and lower class due to their cost. That is, they are very unfair and create economic inequality.
    Vehicle manufacturers are already working on this. What to do after that 5-10 year period. Currently across the world, we're seeing these spent batteries being used in multiple other applications. Power storage for homes, businesses. Powering street lights, grid batteries for electricity. Lot's of backup applications. A new and emerging economic field that will create a 'circle' of use for these batteries.

    Everything we're talking about is already being done. Your statement was an opinion if you ask me.

    Leave a comment:


  • inevtiab1e
    replied
    Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post

    So you'd rather continue on batteries in the hope and expectation that eventually recycling, technology, etc will catch up to the problem, and the assertion that batteries are not going into landfills? Over a more logistically efficient and quite possibly environmentally friendly technology such as hydrogen, which does not generate the sort of waste that you then actually need to regularly recycle in the first place?
    The technology is already catching up to the problem and turning a problem into another usable resource. This will only continue to increase.

    Leave a comment:


  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post
    There are plenty of uses for the used EV batteries. Many businesses are working on recycling technologies. Globally, we're seeing used batteries being re-purposed for other uses.
    The batteries are not going into landfills, sounds like they're continuing their lifespan well beyond that of the EV
    What's that got to do with the total implacability of use while in service? The service life is also a problem. Typically, batteries last about 5 years in use in electric vehicles. This can vary some depending on the climate they're used in (heat in particular will shorten the life) and the manner in which they are charged and used. If you charge a battery car regularly at a fraction of the whole charge, the battery tends to get a "memory" and you end up having a very shortened range per charge.
    The other problem is replacement cost. Replacing a battery pack in one of these vehicles is akin to replacing the engine and transmission in a gasoline vehicle. That is, it costs upwards of $10,000 + to do it. That makes it uneconomical to bother to replace them. Better to scrap the vehicle and make a new one. That's great for manufacturers but terrible for the resale market and those looking for low price vehicles because of limited budgets.

    In a very real sense, battery cars are biased against the poor and lower class due to their cost. That is, they are very unfair and create economic inequality.

    Leave a comment:


  • TacCovert4
    replied
    Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post
    There are plenty of uses for the used EV batteries. Many businesses are working on recycling technologies. Globally, we're seeing used batteries being re-purposed for other uses.
    The batteries are not going into landfills, sounds like they're continuing their lifespan well beyond that of the EV
    So you'd rather continue on batteries in the hope and expectation that eventually recycling, technology, etc will catch up to the problem, and the assertion that batteries are not going into landfills? Over a more logistically efficient and quite possibly environmentally friendly technology such as hydrogen, which does not generate the sort of waste that you then actually need to regularly recycle in the first place?

    Leave a comment:


  • inevtiab1e
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

    You can't get around the chemistry and physics of batteries. They will always take considerable time, typically hours, to charge up. The rate of charge is determined by the amount of power you can put into them and by the heat generated as the chemical reaction occurs. Thus, unlike gasoline, diesel, and other portable fuels, batteries and battery cars are impractical for use beyond their initial range. Once the batter discharges, it takes hours of sitting and recharging it before you can go again.
    The solution is to abandon battery cars and hybrids for hydrogen fuel cell technology. A hydrogen fuel cell vehicle can refuel as efficiently as gasoline or diesel powered vehicle can. The infrastructure for hydrogen fuel is capable of being added to the existing infrastructure of fossil fuel. That is, you simply add a pump or pumps at existing gas stations.
    Charging stations for battery cars are just another idiocy of the whole idea of using them. Imagine if you had a large proportion of vehicles running on batteries. You'd need parking lots full of individual charging stations, one per vehicle, maybe upwards of a hundred or more at larger sites, to allow numerous vehicles to recharge simultaneously. This is because each vehicle will require upwards of hours to do so.



    While the Left spouts platitudes, ignores science, and fixates on desired (call it unicorns and rainbows) solutions rather than ones based on sound science, economics, and engineering. The Left lies like a rug about environmentalism.

    Here's just one example of that:

    https://www.369universe.com/2016/03/...hima-disaster/

    The first picture in the above article isn't even the Fukushima nuclear plant. It's a totally unrelated chemical fire in Japan that happened later.



    That's the Fukushima nuclear plant, pre-accident.

    The second picture was refuted by the original source.



    The Left lies their @$$es off about anything that doesn't fit their worldview / narrative and that's especially true when it comes to environmentalism. They know little or nothing about science and fully expect you to be the same way, simply accepting their lies.
    There are plenty of uses for the used EV batteries. Many businesses are working on recycling technologies. Globally, we're seeing used batteries being re-purposed for other uses.
    The batteries are not going into landfills, sounds like they're continuing their lifespan well beyond that of the EV

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by Bow View Post

    How about the batteries on the so called "electric car".......nobody mentions the pollution caused by the production of electric batteries
    and the consumption of energy and cost in the charging of batteries and how far you can travel on a charge.
    Yes good points. Plus for some Tesla automobile owners it can be difficult to even find a charging station.


    Leave a comment:

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