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  • No Evidence

    This pretty much sums it up:

    https://youtu.be/-zYFcy_1Toc

    First hand knowledge, not hearsay...... nuff said.

    What will the left try to remove Trump with next?
    "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

  • #2
    First hand testimony has been given in the inquiry. And hearsay or second-hand information can be used as there are exceptions to the hearsay rule.
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

    Comment


    • #3
      If Trump says he does not know LtCol Vindman, then why does he personally attack him?

      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartandhp

      President Donald Trump said Tuesday he doesn't know the National Security Council expert who told lawmakers that Trump's July 25 call with
      Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky
      was inappropriate.

      But Trump stopped short of repeating his claim that Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman is a "Never Trumper."

      "I don't know Vindman at all," Trump said during a cabinet meeting at the White House. "I never heard of him."
      We are not now that strength which in old days
      Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
      Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
      To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

      Comment


      • #4
        https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartandhp

        One Republican-called witness changed his testimony.

        After three witnesses last week painted a broad picture of a U.S. foreign policy hijacked by political interests, this week the impeachment inquiry into President Trump began with testimony Tuesday from four people who serve inside the White House and on the front lines of U.S. foreign policy in Ukraine.

        Volker — like the ambassador to the European Union, Gordon Sondland — was forced to correct his testimony after other witnesses called it into question.

        The most important clarification came with regard to a July 10 meeting in which Sondland has now acknowledged he brought up investigations with Ukrainian leaders — after previously not disclosing that. Volker had previously testified that there was no mention during that meeting of the investigations Trump and his personal attorney Rudolph W. Giuliani were seeking. But other witnesses indicated then-national security adviser John Bolton shut down the meeting because Sondland broached them.

        So on Tuesday, Volker confirmed it, saying Sondland made “a general comment about investigations” toward the end of the meeting — but Volker said that he himself might not have been around for some of the fallout.

        He added, “I think all of us thought it was inappropriate.”

        We are not now that strength which in old days
        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Massena View Post
          First hand testimony has been given in the inquiry. And hearsay or second-hand information can be used as there are exceptions to the hearsay rule.


          Which of the exceptions applies?

          Just saying there are exceptions is meaningless, without an explanation as to which one would apply and why.
          Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

          Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Nichols View Post
            This pretty much sums it up:

            https://youtu.be/-zYFcy_1Toc

            First hand knowledge, not hearsay...... nuff said.

            What will the left try to remove Trump with next?
            Ouch.That testimony had to hurt if they thought Morrison or volker would provide testimony to support the effort to remove trump.

            You’re right, they will have to come up with a new false claim.

            Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

            Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post



              Which of the exceptions applies?

              Just saying there are exceptions is meaningless, without an explanation as to which one would apply and why.
              I've already posted them. I am assuming that people can look them up and figure it out for themselves.

              And as people are continuously posting the Republican talking point about hearsay evidence, then an opposite and correct viewpoint is called for.
              We are not now that strength which in old days
              Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
              Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
              To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post

                Ouch.That testimony had to hurt if they thought Morrison or volker would provide testimony to support the effort to remove trump.

                You’re right, they will have to come up with a new false claim.
                Volker and Morrison were expected to support the Republicans in the hearing, not the Democrats. And Volker changed his testimony which did not support the Republicans on the committee.

                Did you not watch any of the hearings or the news reports on them? Or are you merely relying on snippets from partisan viewpoints?
                We are not now that strength which in old days
                Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                Comment


                • #9
                  "the demand for an investigation into the Democrats was part of the reason that he ordered to withhold funding to Ukraine."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Massena View Post

                    Volker and Morrison were expected to support the Republicans in the hearing, not the Democrats. And Volker changed his testimony which did not support the Republicans on the committee.

                    Did you not watch any of the hearings or the news reports on them? Or are you merely relying on snippets from partisan viewpoints?


                    Are you saying morrison and volker lied when they testified under oath there was no quid pro quo, no bribery and even the Ukrainians didn’t know anything was going on? (You know the victims)
                    I listened to the testimony of those 2 guys and as I said, if the dems were hoping they would support the effort to remove trump they are going to be disappointed.

                    If there is testimony that you think sinks trump, give me the link and I will listen to that too.
                    And the “snippet” of Morrison’s and Volker’s testimony means they are useless to the dems.

                    Please point out where my point was in error.
                    Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                    Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Massena View Post

                      I've already posted them. I am assuming that people can look them up and figure it out for themselves.

                      And as people are continuously posting the Republican talking point about hearsay evidence, then an opposite and correct viewpoint is called for.


                      You posted the list of exceptions and nothing else. I asked you which one applied and you would not respond

                      If you can’t identify which one applies, then there is no reason to post the exceptions.
                      Unless you are trying to mislead people.

                      The fact that others might be posting republican talking points doesn’t mean you get to make stuff up.
                      Given that you posted the list of exceptions and keep referencing that exceptions apply, I don’t think it is unreasonable for me to ask which one.
                      I already knew the exceptions and don’t know which one you think applies.
                      I think none of them apply, but I’m willing to listen to why you think I’m wrong.
                      Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                      Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Massena View Post

                        Volker and Morrison were expected to support the Republicans in the hearing, not the Democrats. And Volker changed his testimony which did not support the Republicans on the committee.

                        Did you not watch any of the hearings or the news reports on them? Or are you merely relying on snippets from partisan viewpoints?
                        Oh, most certainly. I saw a Lt Coronal violate several rules of the Military Code of Conduct while in uniform, a so called witness that was told by his lawyer to plead the 5th., the person that knows who the so called witness is deny that he knew who the witness is, and numerous efforts to silence questioning by Republicans.

                        This entire hearings is nothing more then the effort of far left Democrats to protect themselves from their own corruption starting with what took place while Biden was Vice President. I ask the following question, why is Trump being attacked for on hearsay that he was attempting to do what Biden actually did? Why hadn't Biden been impeached for his actions? In his own words on an open form. No hidden mike, no secret meeting, a totally open form who's link has been buried by Google Search. I will keep reminding you and so many others about this because Trump haters have such a short attention span when dealing with the facts.

                        I remember going over and convincing our team, others, to convince that we should be providing for loan guarantees. And I went over, I guess, the 12th, 13th time to Kiev. And I was supposed to announce that there was another billion-dollar loan guarantee. And I had gotten a commitment from Poroshenko and from Yatsenyuk that they would take action against the state prosecutor. And they didn’t.

                        So they said they had—they were walking out to a press conference. I said, nah, I’m not going to—or, we’re not going to give you the billion dollars. They said, you have no authority. You’re not the president. The president said—I said, call him. (Laughter.) I said, I’m telling you, you’re not getting the billion dollars. I said, you’re not getting the billion. I’m going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them and said: I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money. Well, son of a b-tch. (Laughter.) He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time.”


                        https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/24...AYDm7UzvhBAyWE

                        “Breaking News,”

                        “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post



                          Are you saying morrison and volker lied when they testified under oath there was no quid pro quo, no bribery and even the Ukrainians didn’t know anything was going on? (You know the victims)
                          I listened to the testimony of those 2 guys and as I said, if the dems were hoping they would support the effort to remove trump they are going to be disappointed.

                          If there is testimony that you think sinks trump, give me the link and I will listen to that too.
                          And the “snippet” of Morrison’s and Volker’s testimony means they are useless to the dems.

                          Please point out where my point was in error.
                          Did you watch the hearings? Perhaps this will help:

                          https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/19/polit...ent/index.html

                          Former US Special Envoy to Ukraine Kurt Volker was widely seen as Republicans' impeachment ace in the hole. On Tuesday on Capitol Hill, it didn't work out that way.

                          Volker's opening statement repeatedly acknowledged that statements he made during his October 3 closed-door deposition in front of House investigators had been not fully informed. And that, in the six weeks between that first appearance and his public appearance before the House Intelligence Committee on Tuesday, much had changed that forced him to also revise and extend his original contentions.

                          Among the key changes Volker made to his original testimony:


                          *He acknowledged that he lacked a full understanding of the fact that many people involved in the Trump administration's push for an investigation into an Ukrainian natural gas company on whose board Joe Biden's son, Hunter sat, viewed that pressure campaign as synonymous with a call to investigate the Bidens."I now understand that others saw the idea of investigating possible corruption involving the Ukrainian company, 'Burisma' as equivalent to investigating former Vice President Biden," said Volker. "I saw them as very different. The former being appropriate and unremarkable, the latter being unacceptable."
                          *Volker initially said that investigations into Trump's conspiracy theories and the release of almost $400 million in military aid for Ukraine were not mentioned in a July 10 meeting at the White House. But on Tuesday, Volker said he now knows that the investigations were mentioned.
                          *Volker said in his October testimony that any conversations with the Ukrainians about making an announcement on the opening of an investigation into the Bidens had ended in August. But on Tuesday, Volker acknowledged that US Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland had told a top Ukrainian official on September 1 that he believed the military aid was tied to the announcement of an investigation.
                          Those are big changes, with big implications.



                          We are not now that strength which in old days
                          Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                          Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                          To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Volker said that Sondland said that he had told an unknown ( thus inexistent ) Ukrainian official that he believed ! blahblah .
                            As long as one can not interrogate this unknown Ukrainian official, the whole thing is worthless .

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post



                              You posted the list of exceptions and nothing else. I asked you which one applied and you would not respond

                              If you can’t identify which one applies, then there is no reason to post the exceptions.
                              Unless you are trying to mislead people.

                              The fact that others might be posting republican talking points doesn’t mean you get to make stuff up.
                              Given that you posted the list of exceptions and keep referencing that exceptions apply, I don’t think it is unreasonable for me to ask which one.
                              I already knew the exceptions and don’t know which one you think applies.
                              I think none of them apply, but I’m willing to listen to why you think I’m wrong.
                              What a load of rubbish. I posted the listing because some on this forum were ranting about hearsay regarding the inquiry witnesses.

                              And just how would that 'misead people'?

                              I am not surprised that you believe none of them apply as you are blindly following the Republican talking points and Trump's actual misleading accusations.

                              Incredible.
                              We are not now that strength which in old days
                              Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                              Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                              To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                              Comment

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