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  • #31
    Originally posted by craven View Post

    actually they do.

    Now to remember the supreme court case that covers that.

    did some research and a lot of things point to this but don't have time to fully delve into it.

    McGrain v. Daugherty, 273 U.S. 135 (1927)

    https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/273/135/
    I agree Congress has the authority to subpoena a witness. (Just like when Holder ignored his subpoena)

    The case you cite does not stand for the proposition that congress gets to essentially run the executive branch.
    Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

    Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post

      Ahh, I was unaware that you were changing what you meant and what I said.
      Forgive me.
      What you said was as usually nonsense because you tried to equate the limits of oversights with the lack of oversight. The fact that I had to articulate the difference in my second post is a testament of my attempt to make you aware of the difference that you could not originally grasp. It has nothing to do with me changing my position.
      My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post

        I agree Congress has the authority to subpoena a witness. (Just like when Holder ignored his subpoena)

        The case you cite does not stand for the proposition that congress gets to essentially run the executive branch.
        Your attempt to change what you originally tried to claim is noted

        Now you tell us that oversight of the executive branch means "essentially run the executive branch"

        LOLOLOL

        For those who still know English, here is how the term "oversight " is used by legal experts

        https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32935.pdf

        Congressional Oversight of Judges and Justices

        I guess you believe that the above implies that the Congress "essentially runs" the judicial system
        Last edited by pamak; 18 Nov 19, 18:46.
        My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by pamak View Post

          Your attempt to change what you originally tried to claim is noted

          Now you tell us that oversight of the executive branch means "essentially run the executive branch"

          LOLOLOL

          For those who still know English, here is how the term "oversight " is used by legal experts

          https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32935.pdf

          Congressional Oversight of Judges and Justices

          I guess you believe that the above implies that the Congress "essentially runs" the judicial system
          \checks and balances are usually messy when they have to applied.
          Historically, \
          and perhaps the members of the bar here can answer,
          "In 1930, was the \attorney General of |Kansas right to , essentially, break the election law of Kansas in order to block John \Romulus Brinkley from- becoming State governor?
          The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by pamak View Post

            Your attempt to change what you originally tried to claim is noted

            Now you tell us that oversight of the executive branch means "essentially run the executive branch"

            LOLOLOL

            For those who still know English, here is how the term "oversight " is used by legal experts

            https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32935.pdf

            Congressional Oversight of Judges and Justices

            I guess you believe that the above implies that the Congress "essentially runs" the judicial system
            No. My point was always the same.
            Congress cannot run the executive branch.
            Sorry.

            I agree it can investigate.
            The police can investigate me for criminal activity, but they have no right to "oversee" my routine actions.
            Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

            Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by marktwain View Post

              \checks and balances are usually messy when they have to applied.
              Historically, \
              and perhaps the members of the bar here can answer,
              "In 1930, was the \attorney General of |Kansas right to , essentially, break the election law of Kansas in order to block John \Romulus Brinkley from- becoming State governor?
              Checks and Balances provide powers and limitations (the latter in combination with the Separation of Powers) to have a branch keep in check abuses from the other branches. And yes, it has to be messy. I cannot see how a simple formula can achieve an effective check and balance.
              Last edited by pamak; 18 Nov 19, 19:50.
              My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post

                No. My point was always the same.
                Congress cannot run the executive branch.
                Sorry.

                I agree it can investigate.
                The police can investigate me for criminal activity, but they have no right to "oversee" my routine actions.
                Then you need to work with your vocabulary. I suggest you read how the experts use the terms you try to use. I gave you an example if you are really interested in learning how to use appropriately the terms you try to use.

                Last edited by pamak; 18 Nov 19, 20:25.
                My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post

                  ...
                  I agree it can investigate.
                  The police can investigate me for criminal activity, but they have no right to "oversee" my routine actions.
                  And speaking about Congress oversight of the administration in cases that do not involve crimes and impeachment proceedings

                  https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/97-936.pdf

                  Statutes The “necessary and proper” clause of the Constitution also allows Congress to enact laws that mandate oversight by its committees, grant relevant authority to itself and its support agencies, and impose specific obligations on the executive to report to or consult with Congress, and even seek its approval for specific actions.

                  or

                  http://people.brandeis.edu/~woll/gal...reorgact46.pdf

                  Another main objective of the Act was to promote closer cooperation and better relationships between the executive and legislative branches. To this end the standing committees were directed (section 136) to exercise "continuous watchfulness" of the execution of the laws by the administrative agencies under their jurisdiction. In recommending "legislative oversight by standing committees," the La Follette-Monroney committee observed that "without effective legislative oversight of the activities of the vast executive branch, the line of democracy wears thin....

                  There are no statutes that require you to report to police committees data about your performance at work.
                  Last edited by pamak; 18 Nov 19, 20:32.
                  My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by pamak View Post

                    Then you need to work with your vocabulary. I suggest you read how the experts use the terms you try to use. I gave you an example if you are really interested in learning how to use appropriately the terms you try to use.
                    Hahaha.

                    I know you are desperate to change my post into something I did not say, but pretending doesn’t make it real.
                    Its amusing all the same.

                    I’ve noticed that you avoid making any reference to the post I responded to as you attempt to misinterpret what I was saying. It’s almost as if you wish to lie.

                    I will include the original post.
                    What is needed is for oversight from Congress to be enforced and to not allow the executive branch not only to ignore Congressional subpoenas and to actively encourage or forbid those who are subpoenaed to ignore the subpoena. That is against the law and is against the rule of law.

                    If those who either refuse or are forbidden to testify before a Congressional committee had nothing to hide there wouldn't be a problem.

                    Congress has no authority to make decisions for the executive branch as the post called for.
                    But have at it, you’re just kicking my butt again.
                    Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                    Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by marktwain View Post

                      \checks and balances are usually messy when they have to applied.
                      Historically, \
                      and perhaps the members of the bar here can answer,
                      "In 1930, was the \attorney General of |Kansas right to , essentially, break the election law of Kansas in order to block John \Romulus Brinkley from- becoming State governor?
                      The OP was not calling for “checks and balances”. He was calling for control over day to day decisions.
                      Can’t happen. Sorry.
                      Last edited by Cambronnne; 19 Nov 19, 07:55.
                      Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                      Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post

                        The OP was not calling for “checks and balances”. He was calling for control over day to day decisions.
                        Can’t happen. Sorry.
                        That is actually a point that I can agree with. President Fillmore's administration shows what can happen when the Executive Branch becomes the 'errand boy' for a Congress coming off the rails.
                        The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post

                          I agree Congress has the authority to subpoena a witness. (Just like when Holder ignored his subpoena)

                          The case you cite does not stand for the proposition that congress gets to essentially run the executive branch.
                          very True on the other hand they do get to run the money side of things. You could argue that if Trump had not used money as part of his plan then congress may of been out of its lane.

                          But considering all the invesitgations the republicans did while Obama was in office that a tough argument to make.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by craven View Post

                            very True on the other hand they do get to run the money side of things. You could argue that if Trump had not used money as part of his plan then congress may of been out of its lane.

                            But considering all the invesitgations the republicans did while Obama was in office that a tough argument to make.
                            I agree completely, congress can withhold money.
                            Congress has the right to conduct investigations.
                            It does not have the right to dictate or manage executive branch actions.
                            Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                            Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Massena View Post
                              Jennifer Williams, an aide to Vice President Mike Pence and a career foreign service officer, is scheduled to appear before the House Intelligence Committee on Tuesday. In his Sunday tweet, Trump resurfaced an unfounded accusation he has raised against other officials who have testified in the probe, characterizing Williams as a Never Trumper and associating her with other "Never Trumpers."
                              She's not a political supporter of Pence. She was assigned to him from the State Department.

                              If she's not a "Never Trumper" then what are her politics?...do you know?

                              {}

                              "Any story sounds true until someone tells the other side and sets the record straight." -Proverbs 18:17

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by BorderRuffian View Post
                                She's not a political supporter of Pence. She was assigned to him from the State Department.

                                If she's not a "Never Trumper" then what are her politics?...do you know?
                                Her 'politics' are irrelevant. She works for the state department and they work for the US government no matter who is president or what political party is in power. They, like the armed forces, are apolitical.
                                We are not now that strength which in old days
                                Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                                Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                                To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                                Comment

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