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  • Our Cops Are Out of Control

    An Arizona Deputy Pinned a Quadruple Amputee and Then Arrested the Teen Who Filmed Him

    A disturbing video shows an Arizona sheriff's deputy wrestling a quadruple amputee, age 15, just before arresting both the young man and the 16-year-old who recorded the incident.

    Joel Feinman is head of the Pima County public defender's office, which represented both of the teens arrested in the September incident. According to Feinman, the Pima County Sheriff's Department was responding to a disorderly conduct call at a group home. The amputee, who had been abandoned by his parents, had knocked over a trash can and was yelling; Feinman says he was acting out because he wanted to return to school.

    The video, which Feinman's office provided to the local TV channel KOLD, shows a deputy pinning the teen to the ground, first with his body and then with his arm. The amputee screams for the deputy to get off, and the deputy eventually lets him go. After righting himself, the deputy asks the teen what his "problem" is. The teen replies that he didn't have one and that the only thing he did was knock the trash over.

    While the deputy expresses his frustration at the teen's decision to continue to move, the teen asks him to lower his voice. The deputy bends over the teen and shouts, "I will raise my voice whenever the **** I want!"

    At this moment, the teen behind the camera intervenes, telling the deputy that the teen on the ground has already answered the question.

    The deputy redirects his ire and says, "Shut the hell up! Are you involved in this?"
    https://reason.com/2019/11/15/an-ari...-him/#comments

    https://www.kold.com/2019/11/14/watc...und-by-deputy/


    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin

    The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

  • #2
    I think that 'out of control' would be someone getting shot, stunned by tazer, or sprayed with pepper.

    Looks like the deputy was having a bad day.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Herman Hum View Post
      I think that 'out of control' would be someone getting shot, stunned by tazer, or sprayed with pepper.

      Looks like the deputy was having a bad day.
      All of which has happened and far too frequently. My sentiments are based on everything that has been happening and not just this sole event. This thread will be updated with other examples until we start holding our officers to a higher sense of accountability and professionalism.
      "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
      - Benjamin Franklin

      The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post

        All of which has happened and far too frequently. My sentiments are based on everything that has been happening and not just this sole event. This thread will be updated with other examples until we start holding our officers to a higher sense of accountability and professionalism.
        Come do the damn job then. I'd love to take a month off and give you my caseload.

        We're already held to a standard of accountability and professionalism that literally no one, from the clergy to medicine, is held to. And certainly not the general public, which has absolutely no standard of decorum or civility at all and is perfectly fine acting downright barbaric while being insulted that someone would dare address them sternly.

        I'd say that there's better out there, but the last time we let a reporter use the simulator for a story on use of force incidents, he executed people at about the same rate as Judge Dredd......
        Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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        • #5
          Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post

          Come do the damn job then. I'd love to take a month off and give you my caseload.

          We're already held to a standard of accountability and professionalism that literally no one, from the clergy to medicine, is held to. And certainly not the general public, which has absolutely no standard of decorum or civility at all and is perfectly fine acting downright barbaric while being insulted that someone would dare address them sternly.

          I'd say that there's better out there, but the last time we let a reporter use the simulator for a story on use of force incidents, he executed people at about the same rate as Judge Dredd......
          So, you are telling me that the performance of professional LEOs is better than the one of an untrained reporter. Got it!

          Since you talk about standards, why do not you get some lessons from the LEOs in England instead?

          And no in a professional setting, everybody has standards of decorum and this applies from fast food employees to teachers.

          If a doctors does something stupid and kills a patient, he cannot hide behind claims that he was under stress.

          I will agree though about the lack of accountability within the clergy.

          My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

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          • #6
            Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post

            Come do the damn job then. I'd love to take a month off and give you my caseload.

            We're already held to a standard of accountability and professionalism that literally no one, from the clergy to medicine, is held to. And certainly not the general public, which has absolutely no standard of decorum or civility at all and is perfectly fine acting downright barbaric while being insulted that someone would dare address them sternly.
            It's the only profession where it's difficult to enforce any accountability. What will happen to the officer in the story above? He violated the rights of a teen, by arresting him for doing something that's perfectly legal, video taping. What other profession can you cuss out a teenage amputee and still show up for work the next day?

            If I screw my job up, I lose clients or get fired. If an officer screws up he moves to another district, if anything happens at all.

            I'd say that there's better out there, but the last time we let a reporter use the simulator for a story on use of force incidents, he executed people at about the same rate as Judge Dredd......
            Having a difficult job doesn't mean accountability should be reduced.
            "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
            - Benjamin Franklin

            The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

            Comment


            • #7
              Come do the damn job then.
              You'd have more minorities signing up if it wasn't for stuff like this:

              A Louisiana police officer almost resigned from his job after sharing a racist Facebook meme. Then, he became his town's police chief.

              Almost two years ago, Wayne Welsh, then assistant police chief of Estherwood, came across a meme on Facebook and shared it. The image depicted a white woman pushing the face of a white girl underwater in a bathtub.
              "When your daughters (sic) first crush is a little negro boy," the meme reads.
              https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/03/us/lo...ief/index.html

              Along with the ornaments and strands of lights, two police officers in the 4th precinct of Minneapolis' Police Department added some unusual items to their lobby's Christmas tree: A collection of street trash, including packs of Newport cigarettes, a crumpled bag of Takis chips, a cup from a Popeyes fried chicken outlet, a can of Steel Reserve malt liquor and some yellow crime scene tape. Critics say the items chosen play on negative stereotypes about African-Americans.
              https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/03/us/mi...rnd/index.html

              A Mississippi sheriff made a racist remark in a text message, a public records request by a local newspaper reveals, and then, when questioned about the comment, said he was "aggravated" at the time.

              The Daily Journal reported Tuesday that Sheriff Jim Johnson in August 2017 "described a local white legislator as 'worse than a black person' in a text to a local official."
              https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ty/2009762001/

              A review of the Facebook accounts of thousands of officers around the US — the largest database of its kind — found officers endorsing violence against Muslims, women, and criminal defendants.
              https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...s-philadelphia

              The Philadelphia police commissioner has suspended 17 officers for 30 days and is moving to fire 13 of them over social media posts he called "sickening.".

              Police Commissioner Richard Ross made the announcement during a news conference Thursday attended by Philadelphia Mayor James Kenney and the entire police department's command staff.

              "I continue to be very angered and disappointed by these posts, many of which, in my view, violate the basic tenets of human decency," Ross said. "And I am saddened by the fact that there are even some who would attempt to justify such hateful and vile behavior."
              https://abcnews.go.com/US/17-philade...ry?id=64419082

              But in the sentencing phase of a case that has become part of the national conversation on policing and violence against people of color, prosecutors introduced text messages in which Guyger made offensive statements about the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. and black colleagues on the police force.
              https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/us/am...rnd/index.html


              The racist and offensive emails that resulted in three Ferguson, Missouri, city employees either resigning or being fired have been released.

              The exchanges between the city's top court clerk and two police officers were discovered during a U.S. Justice Department investigation of racial prejudice in the city's police and judicial system.
              The emails -- which make offensive references to President Barack Obama, first lady Michelle Obama as well as Muslims and minorities -- were obtained by the Washington Post on Thursday after a public records request. CNN reviewed them Friday.
              https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/03/us/fe...ils/index.html


              Hats off to the minority officers who can put that aside for the greater good. I can't. Sorry.
              "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
              - Benjamin Franklin

              The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post

                It's the only profession where it's difficult to enforce any accountability. What will happen to the officer in the story above? He violated the rights of a teen, by arresting him for doing something that's perfectly legal, video taping. What other profession can you cuss out a teenage amputee and still show up for work the next day?

                If I screw my job up, I lose clients or get fired. If an officer screws up he moves to another district, if anything happens at all.



                Having a difficult job doesn't mean accountability should be reduced.
                Well:

                1) Considering that it's the only profession where the court of the media and public opinion executes, tries, and then investigates the officer immediately and without question, and retractions are rarely if ever given more than classified ad status, AND there are multiple layers of review boards and such.....I'd say that there's quite a lot of accountability involved.

                2) Based upon the extremely 1 perspective article you posted alone, and without looking for any additional information of which there is undoubtedly a number of documents that should become publicly available......I'm still seeing probable cause for the teen in question obstructing the officer. Not by videotaping.....by his own admission he inserted himself into the situation and confronted the officer directly.

                3) The officer was fighting said amputee. Which we have literally 0 context for outside of the nature of the call ( out of control subject knocking over trash cans etc) and the end result (the arrests). It's beyond difficult to even attempt to analyze this, glad I've got a subject matter expert such as yourself to do it for me. Cussing happens in a fight....and as I noted, the general public is held to 0 standards whatsoever when it comes to language in the first place.

                4) No it doesn't mean accountability should be reduced. It means that an unrealistic goal of absolute perfection should be tempered with the knowledge that they are human beings who must constantly interact with the worst humanity has to offer....that being the general public.
                Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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                • #9


                  I did a quick google search. This was the result.

                  There are 17,985 U.S. police agencies in the United States which include County Sheriff, City and State Police Departments, and Federal Law Enforcement Agencies

                  So......you pulled a handful of articles from all over the country that happened in multiple years.

                  If the profession was just chock-full of racists, one would expect to see this number of articles EVERY SINGLE DAY.
                  Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by pamak View Post

                    So, you are telling me that the performance of professional LEOs is better than the one of an untrained reporter. Got it!

                    Since you talk about standards, why do not you get some lessons from the LEOs in England instead?

                    And no in a professional setting, everybody has standards of decorum and this applies from fast food employees to teachers.

                    If a doctors does something stupid and kills a patient, he cannot hide behind claims that he was under stress.

                    I will agree though about the lack of accountability within the clergy.
                    Just a couple of notes:

                    1) Teachers commit Felonies at a rate that makes cops look like saints.....and generally there are fewer of them.

                    2) When I want to know how to bury and refuse to investigate or arrest in a lengthy series of cases about gangs of men raping little girls, I'll ask the British police.

                    Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If a single racist remark is sufficient proof of a lifetime of innate racism, then we as a country are doomed on the subject.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Is it legal to film a police officer at work, or a teacher at work,or a nurse at work,or,or ....?

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                        • #13
                          A better OP would be : the criminals are out of control .

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post

                            Just a couple of notes:

                            1) Teachers commit Felonies at a rate that makes cops look like saints.....and generally there are fewer of them.

                            2) When I want to know how to bury and refuse to investigate or arrest in a lengthy series of cases about gangs of men raping little girls, I'll ask the British police.
                            1) I do not know the rates of felonies for teachers , and I do not accept your claim as it is without knowing details. And I seriously doubt that teachers are generally fewer. For California some rough numbers indicate the opposite

                            https://www.cde.ca.gov/ds/sd/cb/ceffingertipfacts.asp
                            Fingertip Facts on Education in California - CalEdFacts

                            Number of teachers in public schools: 2017–18
                            Total 315,802
                            https://www.ppic.org/publication/law...in-california/

                            In 2017 there were more than 119,500 full-time law enforcement employees in California; roughly 78,500 were sworn law enforcement officers (with full arrest powers) and 41,000 were civilian staff.

                            Do you know the statistics of domestic abuse among the families of police officers and how it is compared to that of the general population?



                            Anyway, I would not be surprised if the body of teachers AND PARENTS have more more willingness and power to discard the bad apples which dishonor the teaching profession. The parents though who go after the bad apples among police officers often have to fight against the bias of investigators and prosecutors who make decisions about a member of their community.

                            2) You do not need to ask the British police about that. Epstein has shown that the American law enforcement agencies are very capable of burying lengthy series of cases about raping little girls.
                            Last edited by pamak; 18 Nov 19, 07:07.
                            My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                              Is it legal to film a police officer at work, or a teacher at work,or a nurse at work,or,or ....?
                              From what I know, Yes, when they work in a public space provided that the act does not intervene with their duties.

                              https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...police/533031/

                              Federal appeals courts covering half of U.S. states have now ruled that Americans have a First Amendment right to videotape encounters with law enforcement.

                              In its decision in Fields v. City of Philadelphia, the Third Circuit Court of Appeals panel said the First Amendment’s protections extended to two people who used their smartphones to record police interactions with a third party.

                              The First, Fifth, Seventh, Ninth, and Eleventh Circuits have also issued similar rulings, starting in 2011, to protect bystanders who record police actions. Their collective jurisdictions now amount to exactly half of U.S. states and roughly 60 percent of the American population. No federal appeals court has ruled to the contrary; the Supreme Court has not weighed in on the subject.

                              My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

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