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  • #31
    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

    You're proof of that. I don't hate Trump with an appropriate level of vigor, so you're all over me like I was William Barr. I just dislike him is all -- but I at least acknowledge that Trump's vices and flaws as President are not of his own manufacture, but are part of a continuum, a series of precedents that have been built upon generation after generation, going back quite a long way. The ills that Trump represents will not be cured by Trump's impeachment, any more than the ills that Bill Clinton represented were cured by Clinton's impeachment. This is just theater, a post-modern political version of the gladiatorial games of antiquity. The disease that is Homo sapiens' conception of politics as an endeavor will continue unabated. Put it this way: if the revolution doesn't take place between your ears, then it's not a revolution, just a bloodbath.
    I never said that you hated Trump. I could say that your posts show that you hate the Clintons. When criticism is about them, you are not so eager to justify partisan tolerance based on "a series of precedents." On the contrary, you are among the first to lead the criticism against them. A continuum that is left unchecked will lead to collapse when people like you justify their apathy based on what has happened in the past. There is a continuing trend of increasing executive powers and Trump has pushed the boundaries to new frontiers. Yes, impeachment will not cure anything as long as the members of the president's party do not wish to hold such person accountable.





    You can accept what you want. For now, I accept that you're a Churchillian fanatic: "one who can't change his mind, and won't change the subject."
    Unlike you who is so eager to change the subject and talk about historical trends in order to justify the tolerance you show for Trump' action while you are not so willing to teach us this history when Clinton is the target of criticism.


    People only started to care about black voters when blacks got the right to vote. In order to vote, they had to leave the South and migrate North. Only then did political organizations make a real play for blacks' votes. "Moonlight & Magnolia" Lyndon Johnson only started caring about black votes when he figured that several million of them were necessary for him to secure a presidential nomination. Nixon had the same concern, at roughly the same time -- hence the competition to draft and pass civil rights legislation in the late '50s. But when they were running for lower offices, however, Johnson in particular was not only indifferent to blacks' interests, he was downright hostile. It was only when he needed something that he expressed any interest at all. Whatever change he proposed it wasn't exactly predicated on his college-boy morality.
    The right to vote was often the target of racist partisans In the south and common people had to fight hard to change that practice. Common people, organizations and pro-bono lawyers fought long legal battles to challenge such policies and demonstrated in the streets in order to persuade their fellow citizens to take them seriously

    When will human politics change? Has it changed since the days of Caesar? Of Thucydides? I mean, can't Trump stand in for Alcibiades or Cleon? When will human politics stop being about wealth and power disguised as schoolboy morality?
    If you want to accept as a historical law that the US republic will inevitably fall like all ancient republics and not do anything to avoid or at least postpone such collapse, then you sound as somebody who has resigned to fate. Not to mention that you also echo Marxist mentality lolol.

    A low water mark in this republic's history, to be sure. Would have been an ideal starting point for holding our "betters" accountable. Could have made a real house cleaning after that.
    That low water mark and any other similar low water mark from the past can be the beacon for the future only if contemporary people choose to set it as such.

    At the end of the day, if you think that your vote does not count feel free to stay at home on the election day. If you choose to go out and vote, there must be something that motivates you despite the dark picture you present about your power as a regular (and presumably) non-partisan voter.

    As I said before, even when a voter does not get the result he wishes, he can still earn the right to say that at least he did his civic duty and did not contribute to the weakening of the republic.
    Last edited by pamak; 18 Nov 19, 18:06.
    My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

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    • #32
      Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

      Usually they only turn on their own -- Republican or Democrat -- when the offender in question has stepped on too many toes. For Democrats, turning on Elliot Spitzer was easy: he tried to "fcking steamroll" (his words, not mine) Democrats in the legislature, going so far as to campaign against a couple of them in the years before his downfall. Same for Sheldon Silver: he'd pi$$ed off Chuck Schumer once too often, defending Madison Square Garden against Schumer's new Penn Station -- so Schumer sicked his boy -- fmr US Attorney for the Southern District NY Preet Bharaha -- on him. Now the former big shot is fighting for his life, and burning through his nest egg, trying to stay out of prison. At least he's short a son-in-law: Bharaha's office got him sentenced to two years in Federal stir.
      I'd use Arizona's Ev Mecham as the example. The Democrats hated this guy as governor on a scale equal or exceeding Trump. At first the Republicans weren't on board. As things progressed, Mecham got charged and was being tried in court on campaign finance laws, etc., and the Republicans joined the Democrats in impeaching him.

      Carolyn Walker, Democrat minority whip in the Arizona Senate is a good example of the Democrat's response to one of their own. She was caught on tape taking $26,000 (this is 1991) bribes (note the 's' on that). In one she scoops the cash off the government plant's desk (it was an undercover operation to stop graft and 7 members of the Arizona congress were involved) stuffing it into a large purse. You can hear he exclaim "Keep giving this money to me and I'll vote for anything you want. I'm gonna die rich!"

      When charged criminally, she pled poverty even as she still had a full-time job (Arizona congress critters are considered a part-time job) paying $47,000 a year and wanted a public defender appointed. She then demanded that a team of paid lawyers represent her on the taxpayer dime. Yet, through all this the Democrat party did nothing to remove her from her post in the Senate, or anything else politically, even after she was convicted in court. Her employer immediately fired her. Her arrogance and hostility towards the judge and jury in her trial got her a maximum sentence of like 8 years where the other six involved got 6 months to a year with probation.
      They were finally forced into voting on her impeachment from office on a Republican led effort where they did vote against her and she was impeached. She told the Senators at that impeachment that they were a bunch of racists (she's Black) and that's why they were doing this.

      https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news...walker-6412003

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      • #33
        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

        I held a Secret clearance for 27 years, a Sensitive Positions clearance for 23 and underwent 5 year background checks (the neighbors asked why the FBI was asking them about me, etc.) repeatedly.

        I know with 200% certainty, no question about it, if I did what Hillary did I'd have gotten 10 to 15 years in prison for it. The feds would have swept in and confiscated every electronic device I owned in a nanosecond, no waiting involved. They'd likely have hauled off every shred of paper in my house and office at work as well.
        I've seen people get time for taking a low level classified manual home to study for work and qualifications with absolutely no intent to misuse it other than remove it from a secure area get time for doing so.

        Hillary is absolutely and completely guilty and a knowing, willing, felonious criminal in her e-mail scandal. There is ZERO doubt of that, and I'd bet you would have an extremely hard time getting anyone who ever held a government security clearance or even worked on government computer systems to say anything else.
        Well said TAG. I had to go through security clearance too (UK M.O.D) My clearance also depended background checks going back to my great grandparents. Even though I have been out of the army for 17 years, I'm still liable to prosecution if I divulge anything in any way. covered by the Official Secrets Act.

        People should not engage in contretemps with others unless they know what they are 'Posting' about but lefty-liberals seldom do...
        ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
        All human ills he can subdue,
        Or with a bauble or medal
        Can win mans heart for you;
        And many a blessing know to stew
        To make a megloamaniac bright;
        Give honour to the dainty Corse,
        The Pixie is a little shite.

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        • #34
          BOWE BERGDAHL?
          Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

          Comment


          • #35
            BRADLEY MANNING?
            Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

            Comment


            • #36
              Neither deserve exoneration. Bergdahl is a traitor and deserter. Manning is was a traitor and spy acting against the US military. Both deserve being shot.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                BRADLEY MANNING?
                That is not HER name anymore.

                You'd think people could get it right after someone ran for Congress.

                Comment


                • #38

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Phaing View Post

                    That is not HER name anymore.

                    You'd think people could get it right after someone ran for Congress.
                    Bradley is on his birth certificate , that is his name,.
                    I identify as a slender person. In fact, I'm trans slender. But I'm keeping my name....
                    Don't even get me going on the newest PC crap about nouns. They them he she crap, when they find our bones after the worms worked them over. The archeologist will take but a short time to identify them as male or female.
                    Cause, give the man a cigar, them is the only choices!
                    Last edited by Urban hermit; 18 Nov 19, 23:44.
                    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

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                    • #40

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Massena View Post
                        If the servicemembers are innocent and the courts-martials were wrong, then the servicemen should be exonerated. That has not been shown to be the case and Trump is wrong. He is attempting to circumvent the Uniform Code of Military Justice and lawfully convicted war criminals.

                        https://www.redstate.com/streiff/201...-crimes-right/

                        A week ago, President Trump pardoned former First Lieutenant Michael Behenna (see Left Goes Crazy As Trump Pardons Unjustly Convicted Soldier. Now the word is circulating that President Trump is considering more pardons of members of the US who were convicted of war crimes.
                        There is no doubt Mr. Trump is reviewing other cases. The president has said he will review the case of Army Maj. Mathew L. Golsteyn, who faces murder charges in connection with the 2010 death of a man who Maj. Golsteyn believed was a Taliban bombmaker.

                        “At the request of many, I will be reviewing the case of a ‘U.S. Military hero,’ Major Matt Golsteyn, who is charged with murder,” the president tweeted in December. “He could face the death penalty from our own government after he admitted to killing a terrorist bomb maker while overseas.”

                        Advocates and lawmakers also are pushing for a pardon of Army 1st Lt. Clint Lorance, who was convicted of murder in connection with the 2012 deaths of two Afghan men. Lorance was sentenced to 19 years in prison for his role in the incident.
                        I’m ambivalent about the Golsteyn case (see President Trump Vows To Review High Profile War Crimes Case and Army Punishes Hero After Investigation Clears Him) but Lorance was railroaded by a command that was interested in making a political example of a young man in a difficult situation.
                        A presidential pardon does not mean that one has been wrongfully condemned .

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                        • #42
                          Much of those cases being reviewed took place under Obama's rules of engagement. Since when would combatants be denied engaging the enemy when they are being observed planting IEDs around your camp? Well, it happened to a Michigan veteran, who lost all of his limbs as a result of such an event. His squad saw the SOBs burying the devices through their night vision cameras. They were denied permission to take them out and told to go dig out the devices in the morning. They did what was ordered and dug out all of the mines. But, they missed one which went off when the victim's backpack was sat on it in a supposed to be secure area. Only the quick action of his follow soldiers saved his life as he lost both legs above the knees, his right arm at the shoulder, and later, his left arm at the elbow.

                          Way too many of our troops over in Terrorist controlled countries have needlessly lost their lives or have been badly crippled by such stupid rules to appease the Terrorist. So, when a soldier ends up killing a kid that is being used by a Terrorist as a meat shield as he unloads with an automatic weapon injuring several of our soldiers. why should that soldier be charged with murder? Why should murder charges be files when a badly wounded Terrorist is taken prisoner and then dies before he can be moved to a field hospital?

                          It is crap like that which will soon destroy the military just like it has destroyed law enforcement in Ferguson, Baltimore, and in so many other cities where violent crime is now out of control and the police get wrongly blamed by the Fake News Media, mayor, and Obama for taking out an armed criminal of color that resisted arrest where there is reliable proof that the officer involved acted properly in defending his life.
                          “Breaking News,”

                          “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                            Neither deserve exoneration. Bergdahl is a traitor and deserter. Manning is was a traitor and spy acting against the US military. Both deserve being shot.
                            Agree. But we don't shoot them anymore. They can be hanged, but I don't think that would be done either.

                            There is a difference, though, between traitors and spies and war criminals. I remember the Law of Land Warfare class we took at Quantico. The bottom line is that you don't kill anyone that doesn't deserve killing. These 'exonerations' are wrong and out of line.
                            We are not now that strength which in old days
                            Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                            Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                            To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

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                            • #44
                              Trump has caused problems in the military service with his exonerations of convicted war criminals:

                              https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/tr...cid=spartandhp


                              President Donald Trump ignored Pentagon advice Friday and pardoned two service members, while also restoring the rank of a third after all faced war crimes allegations. – CNN


                              The pardons come at the end of several years of advocacy from prominent ex-military members of Congress and media personalities. The order specifically mentioned veteran and Congressman Duncan D. Hunter and former officer and “Fox and Friends” pundit Pete Hegseth. – Washington Post


                              But many in the military, especially in legal circles, are not celebrating. Trump’s reprieves, issued against the advice of top defense officials, were seen as a sign of disregard not only for the decisions of military juries, but for the judicial process itself. – The New York Times
                              We are not now that strength which in old days
                              Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                              Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                              To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post
                                His squad saw the SOBs burying the devices through their night vision cameras. They were denied permission to take them out and told to go dig out the devices in the morning. They did what was ordered and dug out all of the mines. But, they missed one which went off when the victim's backpack was sat on it in a supposed to be secure area. Only the quick action of his follow soldiers saved his life as he lost both legs above the knees, his right arm at the shoulder, and later, his left arm at the elbow.

                                Way too many of our troops over in Terrorist controlled countries have needlessly lost their lives or have been badly crippled by such stupid rules to appease the Terrorist. So, when a soldier ends up killing a kid that is being used by a Terrorist as a meat shield as he unloads with an automatic weapon injuring several of our soldiers. why should that soldier be charged with murder? Why should murder charges be files when a badly wounded Terrorist is taken prisoner and then dies before he can be moved to a field hospital?
                                RoE need to be suspended and more free-fire zones incorporated. If the enemy knew that the good guys were not hampered by such rules there would be far fewer casualties to our troops.
                                ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
                                IN MARE IN COELO

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