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  • #31
    Originally posted by asterix View Post

    Bump stocks aren't banned nationwide already? I thought they were.

    And what is the logic behind banning the death penalty? I ask because you're invoking religion...so I'm curious to know how far this extends. Is there consistency in this religion you raise...or is it politically expedient?



    Key word in bold. If you feel a .22 rifle is adequate for your defense or hunting or target shooting....that's great. But you shouldn't confuse your basic needs with constitutional rights. What people need can be very arbitrary as opposed to their wants. I don't want a constitution telling me what I need, I want a constitution telling me I can own what I want within the confines of the law.

    Idk about bump stock bans in the USA.

    My post shows my view that a good society Christian based or not would ban abortion and the death penalty. I also recognize many non Christians are against the death penalty. And that makes sense for I have shown the stats, states in the USA without a death penalty have a lower murder rate compared to states with the death penalty. Its a combination of a proper Religious teaching and just in general a good common sense law. I understand other people support the death penalty but by showing the stats support my views I believe my argument is best.


    The Right to bear arms has always been debated. I believe US citizens should have the right to a pistol, rifle(not automatic) but not a rocket launcher or say an uzi sub machine gun.

    I have also provided my view that we need better jobs in the USA to prevent youngsters from going astray. Thats a part of my core argument itt whether you agree with it or not. And thats because stats show a correlation between poverty and high crime rates.
    Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
    Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

    George S Patton

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post

      Op here, fair enough, I made only one point because that one point is staggering, here's the full article that elaborates

      https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...t-of-the-world
      Not exactly an unbiased source there. The problem I have with your original point is that the "other country" comparisons is flawed in it's own way because it uses the idea of "single-cause" crime...in other words, the argument that the gun itself is the root of the crime. This has been debunked as a myth, yet those who call for more gun control rather than demanding enforcement of exiting laws will always revert to the "other country" clause. Simply put, it's flawed logic.



      “The fallacy of the single cause, also known as complex cause, causal oversimplification, causal reductionism, and reduction fallacy, is a fallacy of questionable cause that occurs when it is assumed that there is a single, simple cause of an outcome when in reality it may have been caused by a number of only jointly sufficient causes. It can be logically reduced to: X occurred after Y. Therefore, Y caused X (although A,B,C…etc. also caused X.) Causal oversimplification is a specific kind of false dilemma where conjoint possibilities are ignored.”
      https://welikeshooting.com/blog/the-...untry-fallacy/

      You'll live, only the best get killed.

      -General Charles de Gaulle

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

        Idk about bump stock bans in the USA.

        My post shows my view that a good society Christian based or not would ban abortion and the death penalty. I also recognize many non Christians are against the death penalty. And that makes sense for I have shown the stats, states in the USA without a death penalty have a lower murder rate compared to states with the death penalty. Its a combination of a proper Religious teaching and just in general a good common sense law. I understand other people support the death penalty but by showing the stats support my views I believe my argument is best.


        The Right to bear arms has always been debated. I believe US citizens should have the right to a pistol, rifle(not automatic) but not a rocket launcher or say an uzi sub machine gun.

        I have also provided my view that we need better jobs in the USA to prevent youngsters from going astray. Thats a part of my core argument itt whether you agree with it or not. And thats because stats show a correlation between poverty and high crime rates.
        You're missing the point about the death penalty. It was never meant to be used as a "deterrent". That is the argument pressed by the anti-death penalty people because it distracts from it's true purpose...which is removing the convicted from society by death. It's punishment, plain and simple. Punishment is not meant to be a deterrent. I can agree that there are sentences and prison terms that should be reviewed, as well as what can be defined or warranted as a suitable incarceration....but in the end, it's still punishment.

        And if you're going to invoke religion on the death penalty that it isn't what out good Lord and Saviour intended....then I can show you just as many stats and charts stating that the overwhelming number of religious people, or those who consider themselves religious, are also opposed to abortion for the same reasons....this is why I was curious if you were consistent in your beliefs. Religious or not, I find people for are for both or against both are much more capable of supporting their POV than those who would oppose one but favor the other.

        As for the gun control, please list 5 individuals you know who posses a fully automatic Uzi or a rocket launcher. That comparison is not even worthy of a response.
        You'll live, only the best get killed.

        -General Charles de Gaulle

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        • #34
          The bump-stock question: Yes, it has been banned. Quick googling shows the ban was enacted nation-wide on March 26, 2019 per ruling by Trump administration.
          You'll live, only the best get killed.

          -General Charles de Gaulle

          Comment


          • #35
            Hello asterix. Pleased to meet you.

            Originally posted by asterix View Post

            Bump stocks aren't banned nationwide already? I thought they were.
            I didn't know that. I thought criminals were still using them in mass shootings.

            Originally posted by asterix View Post
            Key word in bold. If you feel a .22 rifle is adequate for your defense or hunting or target shooting....that's great. But you shouldn't confuse your basic needs with constitutional rights.
            .22's are pretty puny. Semiautomatic hand guns are nice. Same with rifles. Slide action 12 gage shotguns with slugs are great.

            Originally posted by asterix View Post
            What people need can be very arbitrary as opposed to their wants.
            What gets me though, the bastards doing the shootings now are going beyond this. Bumpstocks, big clips, special rounds if they can get their hands on them. A guy can defend his home, without bumpstocks, large clips, and special ammo.

            Originally posted by asterix View Post
            I don't want a constitution telling me what I need, I want a constitution telling me I can own what I want within the confines of the law.
            I agree.
            In closing, I wish California was like Texas. Those guys can carry guns, Bowie knives etc. to protect themselves from disgusting, maggoty, dogbreath, criminals
            "Advances in technology tend to overwhelm me."

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by asterix View Post

              Not exactly an unbiased source there. The problem I have with your original point is that the "other country" comparisons is flawed in it's own way because it uses the idea of "single-cause" crime...in other words, the argument that the gun itself is the root of the crime. This has been debunked as a myth, yet those who call for more gun control rather than demanding enforcement of exiting laws will always revert to the "other country" clause. Simply put, it's flawed logic.





              https://welikeshooting.com/blog/the-...untry-fallacy/
              In the original point OP I didn't argue "single-cause" crime. I only presented a statistic showing that the United States had about 9x the amount of gun violence deaths per capita as Canada. That's all I stated in the Op The article I later posted points out how much of an outlier that United States is compared to other like minded western democracies, and others. What I think that that implies is something that I did not state. You are putting words in my mouth that I did not say.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post

                In the original point OP I didn't argue "single-cause" crime. I only presented a statistic showing that the United States had about 9x the amount of gun violence deaths per capita as Canada. That's all I stated in the Op The article I later posted points out how much of an outlier that United States is compared to other like minded western democracies, and others. What I think that that implies is something that I did not state. You are putting words in my mouth that I did not say.
                Again, how many of those "like minded western democracies" have a failed narco state on their southern border.
                Clearly we do have a gun violence problem. And a drug gang problem.


                I am curious though.
                How many of those "like minded western democracies" have seen a steady decline in gun deaths as we have over the past 25 years?
                I'll bet none.

                So given that we aren't as good as those like minded western democracies how do you propose we fix our problem?
                Can you fix our drug gang problem too?
                If your goal was to simply point out a negative of this country then it is only fair to put that negative in context.

                Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post

                  Again, how many of those "like minded western democracies" have a failed narco state on their southern border.
                  Clearly we do have a gun violence problem. And a drug gang problem.


                  I am curious though.
                  How many of those "like minded western democracies" have seen a steady decline in gun deaths as we have over the past 25 years?
                  I'll bet none.

                  So given that we aren't as good as those like minded western democracies how do you propose we fix our problem?
                  Can you fix our drug gang problem too?
                  If your goal was to simply point out a negative of this country then it is only fair to put that negative in context.
                  I mean no ill will to the United States, a country that I admire. Nor do I have a solution for gun violence in the United States. I do think banning and buying back AR-15's and national red flag laws should be considered. I own a gun and have/had no problem going through a gun safety course to buy one. I'm hoping to get my moose licence next year (there's an annual draw here).

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    This thread is exactly my point in post #2,the OP is questioning the ability to own guns in the USA, It's a Right in our Constitution, and people from other Countries see it as a flaw, however they can't do anything about it, because they can't vote here and continue to whine, until WE amend our second Amendment,(whitch won't happen) the discussion is mute!
                    Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

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                    • #40
                      The problem with gun buybacks is they set a ridiculously low price. I don't like red flag laws either. Why should someone with a grudge against me be able to have my property seized? How would one go about having the seized guns returned? I think National Red Flag laws are unconstitutional.

                      Pruitt
                      Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                      Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                      by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
                        This thread is exactly my point in post #2,the OP is questioning the ability to own guns in the USA, It's a Right in our Constitution, and people from other Countries see it as a flaw, however they can't do anything about it, because they can't vote here and continue to whine, until WE amend our second Amendment,(whitch won't happen) the discussion is mute!
                        I said nothing about repealing the 2nd amendment.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          A couple of notes in this latest shooting that the ALPHABET Fake News Media was so happy to have it occur so that they could distract the American public from the mistake they made of live covering of the Trump Impeachment Inquiry that was blowing up in their face.

                          1. A 45 cal semi auto handgun was used containing a clip with six bullets. No other ammo was found at the scene. That fact is a bit unusual given that most mass shooters are well armed when they go on their rampage.
                          2. No one under the age of of 18, maybe it is 21, can legally purchase any gun in California, so, where did he get it?
                          3. The school is a Gun Free Zone. So, how was he able to smuggle it in with his backpack?
                          4. The just turned 16 year old used the last bullet to shoot himself in the head. He knew that he had so many rounds he could use.
                          5. He did not go in guns blazing. He carefully selected and aimed at his victims at close range.
                          6. The investigation is continuing looking for a motive given that it appears that his victims were shot at random.

                          Study the photo of the past several mass shooters. Can one see a connection that has been pointed out in them? Do a Google search on those drugs that were legally prescribed to those individuals to control their behavior. I would not be surprised to find out that this 16 year old was on one or several of those drugs as well.

                          “Breaking News,”

                          “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by asterix View Post
                            20160709_Drunk_Driving.jpgI guess Canada has an alcohol problem, worse than USA...yet most likely nothing will be done?
                            If that graph had shown that Canadian car deaths from alcohol was 9x higher per capita as the United States then I expect that there would be fierce political pressure in Canada to adopt the same measures that seem to be working in the United States, or at least there would be extremely close examination of American laws and prevention programs.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Rutger View Post

                              Yeah, unlimited guns for everyone .
                              That should avoid the USA becoming the hell hole that Europe is.
                              gun ownership countries by R. Bezoen, on Flickr
                              There are less weapons in Russia than in the US,but there are more murders in Russia than the USA.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

                                Well friend in fact 4% of executions are executions of innocent people. So that number is just way too high even one person executed innocently would be too high. More than that the statistic was already shown... in The United States , states without the death penalty have a lower murder rate Compared to the states with the death penalty.. So the way forward in going with Christian civility and just a good society in general whether Christian or not is to get rid of the death penalty that would help lower mass shootings. Jesus opposed the death penalty. Christianity a civilized religion stands for redemption and honor
                                That US states without the death penalty have a lower murder rate compared to states with death penalty,does NOT mean that if the latter would abolish death penalty theiur murder rate would decrease, one can easily argue the opposite .
                                And to say that Jesus opposed the death penalty is WRONG : there is no proof that Jesus opposed the death penalty .When he said to the good murderer: today you willbe in paradise with me, he did not say : you are one of the 4% of innocents . Besides,there was also a bad murderer who would not go to paradise, but to hell .
                                To say that Christianity is a civilised religion will be considered as racism by 80 % of the word population that is not christian .Besides, religion and civilised have nothing to do with each other .
                                That 4 % of the executed are innocent is not a serious argument to not execute the 96% others who are not innocent .
                                Criminals must be punished,otherwise society will collaps .
                                Death penalty is the only way to prevent criminals from taking over society .If the predecessors of Duterte had done their duty, Duterte would not be obliged to declare total war on criminals .
                                To get rid of death penalty will not lower the number of mass shootings : California has no death penalty ,but still mass shootings . And there were no mass shootings in California when it still had death penalty .

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