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  • Erdogan at the White House...

    ...Trump's partner in crime against the Kurds:

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/13/polit...ors/index.html
    A small group of Republican senators who traditionally focus on foreign policy issues attended a White House meeting with President Donald Trump and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.
    Ahead of the meeting, there had been limited information given to the Hill on what it was all about, two sources familiar with the meeting told CNN. But it was made clear it was a meeting Trump wanted amid significant Capitol Hill criticism of Erdoğan personally and Turkey's recent actions in Syria.

    It was being framed as an opportunity to "clear the air" and have a serious and frank discussion about the real fissures in the relationship, which also includes US outrage over Turkey's purchase of Russian weapons systems, one source familiar with the meeting told CNN. But the source also acknowledged the meeting was very irregular and nobody was sure what to expect.

    GOP Sens. Lindsey Graham, Jim Risch, Ted Cruz, Joni Ernst and Rick Scott all attended and reporters were invited in to see the lawmakers raise their foreign policy concerns with Erdoğan -- specifically addressing the sale of Russian weapons to Turkey and Turkey's conflicts with the Kurds.


    ...While Congress was busy elsewhere...

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/13/polit...ays/index.html
    The House Intelligence Committee opened historic impeachment hearings Wednesday to investigate whether President Donald Trump (and his allies) abused his office in an attempt to strong-arm Ukraine into opening an inquiry into his political rival, former Vice President Joe Biden.
    I monitored the highly anticipated -- and hugely high-stakes -- hearing as it happened. Below, my thoughts on the biggest moments of the day...see the article above.
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

  • #2


    Here is the video or Erdogan and Trump at the White House. There was recently an Iraqi politician whom visits Israel often and he said Israel, Turkey, Russia and the USA should work together more and he was right.

    W/e issues Ergodan faces...Turkey is surely the most liberal Muslim country in all history. Here we are only 3 days after the 81st anniversary of the death of Ataturk...where Turks throughout Turkey stood in silence for multiple minutes, traffic stopped everything stopped to honor Ataturk. Things like that happen in honorable countries. Ataturk was always admired even by Greeks... So even with what the naysayers say of Ergodan, its clear Turkey is a stand up country they are the good guys.

    This whole Kurds thing is being blown out of proportion from multiple sides. Any Kurdish group that did work with the US military knew that in the end the idea of a independent Kurdistan was not a part of the process. The US has allies in the GCC states, Turkey and Israel and none of them are going to give up their land to give away to a so called Kurdistan which would possibly be a ethnic based state when the world needs more free and liberal states in Africa and the ME that have a more open immigration policy.

    Obama also meant with Putin numerous times. The USA and Russia have their differences and the alliances is not as strong as say the Canada/US relation or the US/France relations those our are best allies...but Russia and the USA in going forward can hopefully come closer together to a point where each country stops the allegations against each other.
    Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
    Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

    George S Patton

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    • #3
      The Turks under Erdogan are not the 'good guys.' Trump sold out the Kurds, who suffered over 11,000 dead serving with the US against ISIS. And because of Trump, they were left hanging to Turkish aggression.
      We are not now that strength which in old days
      Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
      Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
      To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Massena View Post
        The Turks under Erdogan are not the 'good guys.' Trump sold out the Kurds, who suffered over 11,000 dead serving with the US against ISIS. And because of Trump, they were left hanging to Turkish aggression.
        Any Kurds that worked with Americans in the fight against ISIL should be thanked. I believe the situation was straightforward... Some Kurds were threatened by ISIL and reached out to the USA for help, at the least they got some help better then being destroyed. At no point did the USA under Obama or Trump tell the various Kurdish groups that were allied to the USA that eventually the US would support a Kurdish state. Iraqi Kurds are Iraqis, Syrian Kurds are Syrians, Turkish Kurds are Turkish. We dont have Italian or Mexican Americans calling for their own state. Iraq today is an ally to the USA. We need to all live together in free societies not societies that favor immigrants based on ethnicity or religion.
        Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
        Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

        George S Patton

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Massena View Post
          The Turks under Erdogan are not the 'good guys.' Trump sold out the Kurds, who suffered over 11,000 dead serving with the US against ISIS. And because of Trump, they were left hanging to Turkish aggression.
          Where did you get the "over 11,000 dead serving with the US" from?
          "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
            Obama also meant with Putin numerous times. The USA and Russia have their differences and the alliances is not as strong as say the Canada/US relation or the US/France relations those our are best allies...but Russia and the USA in going forward can hopefully come closer together to a point where each country stops the allegations against each other.
            I don't understand where we lost our way. We can never be friends with a guy like Putin who runs a corrupt kleptocracy and actively undermines through stealth the rules based international order. Including United States and including Britain with Brexit, including everyone. He betrayed his own signature by invading Ukraine. Putin interfered in the free election of the United States, how is he not the enemy?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post
              He betrayed his own signature by invading Ukraine.
              You have a strange view on this.

              The United States supported a coup against the democratically elected left-wing President Viktor Yanuyovch who had to flee to Russia.

              Assistant US Secretary of State Victoria Nuland proudly told a meeting of business leaders that the US had ‘invested’ more than $5 billion and ‘five years worth of work and in preparation (for this coup).

              The Russians also recored a damning admission by Nuland and made it public. (Nuland was discussing who the United States would place as head of the coup-government; the coup had not yet happened.)

              I forget how many were killed in the demonstrations, but it is claimed that snipers shot both sides in order to get the coup rolling.

              Eastern Ukraine did not want to be part of this perverse neo-Nazi and Jewish led government.

              Many expressed this view publicly.

              They tried to break away but the coup-government sent in troops and a small war started.


              ---------------------------

              The Nazis produced 12,000 tons of NERVE GAS. Why did they not use it?
              Last edited by lewinski; 13 Nov 19, 22:30.

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              • #8
                Like I said, I don't understand where we lost our way.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post
                  Like I said, I don't understand where we lost our way.
                  I do. Obama and his administration. He was a true believer in Leftist - Progressive BS. Like all good Leftists, he saw only what furthered Leftism and not political reality. Thus, for example, Israel = oppressor of Palestine and is evil vs Palestinian terrorists = freedom fighters. Or, Argentina = wants traditional territory back (eg., the Falklands) versus evil colonial power = Britain.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Massena View Post
                    The Turks under Erdogan are not the 'good guys.' Trump sold out the Kurds, who suffered over 11,000 dead serving with the US against ISIS. And because of Trump, they were left hanging to Turkish aggression.
                    Foreign policy is not a question of ''good guys ''
                    The Kurds did not suffer 11000 dead serving with the US against ISIS : 11000 dead is what the Kurds claim,besides,it is irrelevant : the Soviets lost 27 million dead in their war against Germany .
                    There was no Turkish aggression : Turkey refused the advance of the PKK (considered as terrorists by the USA ) to its borders .A lot of Turks have been killed by the Kurds .
                    The Kurds have only themselves to blame .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Foreign policy is not a question of being friends . Being friends is a very childish notion .

                      US also interfered in the Russian election.They interfered in the British elections and Britain interfered in the US elections .
                      What Putin is,is the business of the Russians, not the business of non Russians .

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                        Where did you get the "over 11,000 dead serving with the US" from?
                        He got it from the Kurdish lobby,who got it from the Kurdish department of propaganda .
                        Time said : following certain estimates,the Kurds lost 11000 dead
                        Fox talked about 12000 combat casualties

                        11000 dead is out of the question,this would mean 40000 combat casualties, on a total of 2 million of Kurdish Syrians .
                        Last edited by ljadw; 14 Nov 19, 01:55.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                          Where did you get the "over 11,000 dead serving with the US" from?
                          WP states 11000 dead and 42000 wounded.
                          How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
                          Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

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                          • #14
                            WP said a lot of things, as that 9/11 was the fault of the American people .

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The old saying that countries don't have friends only interests isn't true. If people can have friends then countries can have friends. Canada doesn't live in perpetual fear that the United States will invade it because they are similar liberal democracies. BUT Ukraine does fear Russia invading them and so does most every other neighbour of Russia. Democracies can never be friends with dictators because dictators always act like predatory physcopaths. They act not out of strength but out of constant fear. Fear of being overthrown, fear of being caught. They have to stay in power because else their crimes will be found out. The Ukraine poses a threat to Russia because if Ukraine succeeds in having a decent democracy then Russians will want one too. Putin can't have that now can he?

                              Getting back to friendships between countries my favourite quote about Canada / USA friendship is: The United States is Canada's best friend whether Canadians like it or not, and Canada is the United State's best friend whether Americans know it or not. Such relations are not possible between a democracy and a dictator, especially a dictator as vile and stealthy manipulative as Vladimir Putin.

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