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  • Prog and Con

    A smart conservative wants to keep whats good.
    A smart progressive wants to change whats bad.

    It does mean you can be a smart conservative and a smart progressive at the same time.

    Is that the way forward to diminishing current polarization of US politics ?
    How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
    Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

  • #2
    Why not?
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

    Comment


    • #3
      A true Conservative is self-reliant and wants government to get the hell out their way and out of their life.

      A true Progressive is dependent and wants government to run their life.

      Comment


      • #4
        And where does it say that? Perhaps you could define the terms 'true progressive' and true conservative'? I define myself as an American and a Marine. Deal with it.

        Defining yourself by partisan political definitions is rubbish.
        We are not now that strength which in old days
        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
          A true Conservative is self-reliant and wants government to get the hell out their way and out of their life.

          A true Progressive is dependent and wants government to run their life.
          And that's why things never work. Too many progressives.
          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

            And that's why things never work. Too many progressives.
            Almost everyone is dependent on one thing or another, whether prog or con.
            How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
            Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
              A true Conservative is self-reliant and wants government to get the hell out their way and out of their life.

              A true Progressive is dependent and wants government to run their life.
              Anarchy vs totalitarianism are not the two options.
              How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
              Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

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              • #8
                No. Identity politics is the cause of polarization in the US. Until that's addressed (removed) from the equation, it will not subside.

                For example, tell a conservative that you don't have a problem with Muslims or their religion and you're no longer a conservative in their eyes. Identity politics has taken priority over actual policies which leads to the polarization we see today.

                You can look to Trump as further proof as identity politics being the root problem. Trump's policies, mostly, run contrary to conservative values. However, he still won by being on the same wave-length in terms of identity politics. That's all that matters now.
                "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                - Benjamin Franklin

                The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                  For example, tell a conservative that you don't have a problem with Muslims or their religion and you're no longer a conservative in their eyes
                  Total and complete BS.


                  "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Massena View Post
                    I define myself as an American and a Marine. Deal with it.
                    To God, Corps and Country.

                    When did it become necessary to separate American from Marine in your view?
                    "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

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                    • #11
                      You SHOULD know. All Marine are not American
                      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                      you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

                        Anarchy vs totalitarianism are not the two options.
                        Well said.
                        We are not now that strength which in old days
                        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                          You SHOULD know. All Marine are not American
                          Absolutely correct. There are Marines who are not US citizens and are motivated to serve anyways. I had some in my units.
                          We are not now that strength which in old days
                          Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                          Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                          To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                            No. Identity politics is the cause of polarization in the US. Until that's addressed (removed) from the equation, it will not subside.

                            For example, tell a conservative that you don't have a problem with Muslims or their religion and you're no longer a conservative in their eyes. Identity politics has taken priority over actual policies which leads to the polarization we see today.

                            You can look to Trump as further proof as identity politics being the root problem. Trump's policies, mostly, run contrary to conservative values. However, he still won by being on the same wave-length in terms of identity politics. That's all that matters now.


                            I agree with your point about identity politics, but I think your perception of conservatives is the result of identity politics.
                            Certainly some conservatives would behave as you claim, just as some liberals would disown other liberals for being accepting of christianity, or guns, or prolife, or immigration enforcement.
                            However, speaking as a conservative, I think that my attitude is actually more consistent with actual conservative views on islam.

                            I have no problem with muslims. I only have a problem with their efforts to force our society to change to be more consistent with their practices rather than the other way around. I would have the same problem should a christian religion attempt to force me to support their religious practices as well.

                            To be honest, I do have some issues with Islam, not so much as a belief system, but in the way way they treat women for instance or other religions. (See Saudi Arabia)
                            I think too many of their views are inconsistent with a modern, free society.
                            Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                            Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                              I agree with your point about identity politics, but I think your perception of conservatives is the result of identity politics.
                              Have you considered the possibility that your (US American) "conservatives" might be already be quite "progressive" by "Old World" standards ?

                              Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                              I have no problem with muslims.
                              Any more than I have problems with Jews, Christians, Catholics, Protestants, Mormons or Quakers,

                              nothing better than a good, old-fashioned, drunk, pagan though is there
                              High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

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