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  • #16
    Originally posted by Phaing View Post

    I was going to jump into this one, but now I have to start on the other side and ask you WTF?

    No. No no no.... I HATE that kind of logic. You are using the injustice of the past to justify the injustice of the present.
    Why?
    What are you hoping to gain by this?
    Eh, no? Those are two separate arguments, you can't just snip them and mix them to be the same one. Furthermore, at no point did I even suggest injustices of the past justify the injustices of the present. I am also dumbfounded why you would think being a racist, or an ******* in general, having negative consequences would be an injustice. Care to explain?

    The first point, just to clarify, was that PC culture didn't start with the left. It has always existed, only in the past it would get you killed, whereas today it just makes you a social pariah (which, IMO, you should be if you go around shouting that kind of stuff).
    Wisdom is personal

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Karri View Post

      Sure thing chief, but now imagine I didn't personally mean you (replace the word you with "one") and answer the post and don't go for the snowflake culture your president is promoting.

      Do you really feel oppressed because a restaurant has a rainbow flag? Really? How can you, personally, critizise the "PC-leftist culture" when you clearly embody it.
      But you did mean me. I said the Left oppresses people, and you went on a rant about 50-70 years ago and how I can't oppress people "anymore." You're just trying to justify your own oppression of the conservative culture. That proves my original point: they government shouldn't use your data against you, because the p.c. culture—left, right, or whatever— can use it to opress your beliefs in the name of justice, progress, humanity, or whatever. It's what the Nazis and Stalinists did. China, a Communist country, is doing it now. Funny how you defended Communists too. You identify with Communism, and you want to oppress people. Fine. Have at it. Keep losing elections though. Or better yet, just move to China or North Korea. The "State" is big there and will do all your oppressing for you, and you can relax and sip pina coladas or whatever the state mandates.
      "It is a fine fox chase, my boys"

      "It is well that war is so terrible-we would grow too fond of it"

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by American87 View Post

        But you did mean me. I said the Left oppresses people, and you went on a rant about 50-70 years ago and how I can't oppress people "anymore." You're just trying to justify your own oppression of the conservative culture. That proves my original point: they government shouldn't use your data against you, because the p.c. culture—left, right, or whatever— can use it to opress your beliefs in the name of justice, progress, humanity, or whatever. It's what the Nazis and Stalinists did. China, a Communist country, is doing it now. Funny how you defended Communists too. You identify with Communism, and you want to oppress people. Fine. Have at it. Keep losing elections though. Or better yet, just move to China or North Korea. The "State" is big there and will do all your oppressing for you, and you can relax and sip pina coladas or whatever the state mandates.
        Once you are done ranting you can maybe answer the points I raised? I can re-write what I said if I must, if you absolutely cannot get past the pronoun "you".
        Wisdom is personal

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Karri View Post

          Eh, no? Those are two separate arguments, you can't just snip them and mix them to be the same one.
          It did look like all the same thrust to me because I am the one that made the OP and I am seeing all the posts in the thread through that lens.
          Sorry, I will get back to them later and try to do that part better.

          Originally posted by Karri View Post
          Furthermore, at no point did I even suggest injustices of the past justify the injustices of the present.
          It sure looked that way! Then why did you go there, are you saying that we are doomed to keep making the same mistakes forever?

          Originally posted by Karri View Post
          I am also dumbfounded why you would think being a racist, or an ******* in general, having negative consequences would be an injustice. Care to explain?
          That was a confusing sentence until I re-read it a few times.
          There will always be negative consequences for being an A-hole, unless of course you work in Hollywood... and even there it can eventually catch up with you.

          But there is a problem; today the power of the accusation is supreme and getting stronger every day. Just like the Cops, everyone in social media believes the worst about everyone and the assumption is Guilty until proven Innocent.
          This means that the act of accusing anyone of being a racist or a ***************(whatever) can be an abusive act in itself.

          So, call me a dumb kid if you want, but I am not willing to start throwing bricks at everyone that is accused of being .... whatever.
          My arm would get sore very quickly.
          And you might be next, you know, what with an avatar that looks like the KKK version of Santa Claus.


          Originally posted by Karri View Post
          The first point, just to clarify, was that PC culture didn't start with the left. It has always existed, only in the past it would get you killed, whereas today it just makes you a social pariah (which, IMO, you should be if you go around shouting that kind of stuff).
          That isn't Political Correctness you are talking about now, its is organized Political Persecution.

          "Just" a social pariah? People commit suicide all the time because of cyber-bullying.
          So maybe you are right, PC is a pretty brutal ideology. Maybe we should just dump it?


          So anyway-
          Originally posted by Karri View Post
          You say PC culture, but the only thing that has changed are the reasons to get ostracised. In other words, 50 - 70 years ago if you supported gay rights, human rights (for anyone else but white males), or any leftist agenda the fear machine would kick in, and you'd lose everything (even your life). The funny part about this is that you don't feel oppressed because you are oppressed, you feel oppressed because you can't oppress anymore.
          Who do you want to ostracize?
          IMHO, every time I get a straight answer to that, it is either about targeting 5 guys that nobody listens to anyway, or half the country is the target!

          I think you are being paraniod. If supporting "any leftiust agenda" was really costing everyone everything (even their lives) then there would be no Democrats today. You are talking Political Genocide, like what they did in Cambodia.

          The point I am trying to make is ostracizing people is a bad thing to do, and the choice to do so should NOT be made for me. Not by you, and not by the Govt and not by a million dickheads on social media.

          And what is with all this oppressed//oppressor stuff? Isn't there any room in your view of the world for people who don't want to be either thing?
          I aask because in college there never seemed to be, and that was just la few years ago.

          Originally posted by Karri View Post
          You could also say that the bullied have become bullies, and am not a big fan of social media witch hunts either. But if you can't stop yourself from shouting racial and other slurs online, where everything is for everyone to see (possibly forever), then you really have no one else to blame but yourself
          Almost all of the "ones" posting racist trash in the net are Trolls who don't believe in anything but making people hate each other.... and they do it because they are projecting their self-hate onto everyone else in the world.
          If you can find out who they really are then they probably are not professional Trolls, why not give them a chance to apologize and then leave them alone if they do?
          I never understood why some people keep getting attacked for one thing, its not like they do it every day..... unlike that dork in the White House that Tweets like a twit every damn day!
          Last edited by Phaing; 10 Nov 19, 21:32.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Karri View Post

            Once you are done ranting you can maybe answer the points I raised? I can re-write what I said if I must, if you absolutely cannot get past the pronoun "you".
            It's not the pronoun, it's the perspective. 2nd person. You addressing me directly. Now you're caught, and trying to act like you meant to talk in the third person. How often does that happen? And yes, please reword your argument.
            "It is a fine fox chase, my boys"

            "It is well that war is so terrible-we would grow too fond of it"

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by American87 View Post

              It's not the pronoun, it's the perspective. 2nd person. You addressing me directly. Now you're caught, and trying to act like you meant to talk in the third person. How often does that happen? And yes, please reword your argument.
              Caught? What a lion tamer you are! Catching me like this! Next up, catch a grammar book and check if the word "you" can be used to refer to unspecified person. Catch you(2nd person) some knowledge! You(indefinite) can never have too much of it!

              Meanwhile, I'll fix the original post. My mistake of mixing 2nd and 3rd person, and assuming that a native speaker would understand the difference.
              Wisdom is personal

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Phaing View Post
                It sure looked that way! Then why did you go there, are you saying that we are doomed to keep making the same mistakes forever?
                I was commenting on this PC culture/leftist nonsense that one always hears in this board. The point was that these people are crying foul only because today they are facing the negative consequences, as opposed to ages gone when they could tell what was allowed to be said and what was not. So if they want to blame someone for the PC culture they should blame themselves as much as others.

                That was a confusing sentence until I re-read it a few times.
                There will always be negative consequences for being an A-hole, unless of course you work in Hollywood... and even there it can eventually catch up with you.
                English isn't my first language, and even so I re-wrote that sentence two or three times. If you get confused just ask me to clarify. Luckily, you didn't jump into conclusions unlike some in here

                But there is a problem; today the power of the accusation is supreme and getting stronger every day. Just like the Cops, everyone in social media believes the worst about everyone and the assumption is Guilty until proven Innocent.
                This means that the act of accusing anyone of being a racist or a ***************(whatever) can be an abusive act in itself.
                I believe the term is slander, and you are partially true. I've seen the trend buckle lately though. You can also think of it as an over-correction.

                In fact, just today there was a case of a Finnish-Somalian MEP getting caught lying about some racist confrontation. Five years ago no one would have questioned him, today everyone questioned him.

                This whole thing isn't really about PC culture, rather internet itself. People tend to believe whatever they want to believe, and internet has allowed this to go to the extreme: you can always find something that supports your point of view. This is unfortunately very prevalent amongst the older generations (which is why they keep falling for all sorts of scams), with the younger generations having a bit more skill deciding what might and what might not be true. It's definitely not some academic communist conspiracy as some would suggest.

                So, being accused of something that you didn't do is an injustice, but being a racist and facing the consequences of that is not. I see far more of the latter than the former.

                So, call me a dumb kid if you want, but I am not willing to start throwing bricks at everyone that is accused of being .... whatever.
                My arm would get sore very quickly.
                And you might be next, you know, what with an avatar that looks like the KKK version of Santa Claus.
                Instead, you throw random conspiracy theories at everything? What you say is part of the problem: I will not do this, unless it supports my point of view. Right?

                That isn't Political Correctness you are talking about now, its is organized Political Persecution.

                "Just" a social pariah? People commit suicide all the time because of cyber-bullying.
                So maybe you are right, PC is a pretty brutal ideology. Maybe we should just dump it?
                They used to burn witches, and your entire country was founded by people fleeing real persecution. And is it really bullying when you are guilty of it? Is it persecution to point out the real racists? Instead of creating this big conspiracy, maybe ask yourself why are you being targeted? Could it be that you are actually racist? That you are actually saying things that you shouldn't? I have yet to hear a single target of these witch hunts claim anything else than total innocence. These are things that need sorting out before you can dump it.

                The word you is not referring to you personally here

                Who do you want to ostracize?
                IMHO, every time I get a straight answer to that, it is either about targeting 5 guys that nobody listens to anyway, or half the country is the target!
                I ostracize dishonest people.

                I think you are being paraniod. If supporting "any leftiust agenda" was really costing everyone everything (even their lives) then there would be no Democrats today. You are talking Political Genocide, like what they did in Cambodia.
                Not true. Not about the leftist part, and not about the political genocide.

                The point I am trying to make is ostracizing people is a bad thing to do, and the choice to do so should NOT be made for me. Not by you, and not by the Govt and not by a million dickheads on social media.

                And what is with all this oppressed//oppressor stuff? Isn't there any room in your view of the world for people who don't want to be either thing?
                I aask because in college there never seemed to be, and that was just la few years ago.
                There are plenty of people who aren't either, they just don't cry about it on the internet/social media/FOX news. And the choice is obviously yours, no matter what the dickheads and government decide. As it has always been.

                Almost all of the "ones" posting racist trash in the net are Trolls who don't believe in anything but making people hate each other.... and they do it because they are projecting their self-hate onto everyone else in the world.
                Sorry, but that is complete nonsense. Just like any white person committing mass murder is "a lone wolf" and everyone else a terrorist. There are plenty of racist trash being posted by "normal" people. They might be just projecting self-hate though, just like all those anti-gay politicians who get caught in midnight truck stops...

                If you can find out who they really are then they probably are not professional Trolls, why not give them a chance to apologize and then leave them alone if they do?
                Because then they will apologize just to be left alone, not because they mean it. What kind of culture does that promote? On the other hand, why not just post this **** online? If you want to be left alone, the easiest way is to not yell obscenities in public. And does this really have anything to do with you and I? I doubt either of us are part of either crowd. Isn't this whole thing more a "much ado about nothing"?

                I never understood why some people keep getting attacked for one thing, its not like they do it every day..... unlike that dork in the White House that Tweets like a twit every damn day!
                Do people really keep getting attacked though? Usually, these things just trend for a day or two and then everyone forgets about it.

                We've strayed quite far from the original post, which was just to point out that this is how a lot of humans have always been. There are those who yell about all wrongdoings as long as they get to decide what the wrongdoing is. I wonder, who listens to them?
                Wisdom is personal

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by American87 View Post

                  It's not the pronoun, it's the perspective. 2nd person. You addressing me directly. Now you're caught, and trying to act like you meant to talk in the third person. How often does that happen? And yes, please reword your argument.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Karri View Post
                    I was commenting on this PC culture/leftist nonsense that one always hears in this board. The point was that these people are crying foul only because today they are facing the negative consequences, as opposed to ages gone when they could tell what was allowed to be said and what was not. So if they want to blame someone for the PC culture they should blame themselves as much as others.
                    Two wrong do not make things right, that is my point.

                    Will white people have to be enslaved for a few centuries just to make Black People happy ... or will humanity be able to rise above the endless circle of hate, revenge and violence?

                    Originally posted by Karri View Post
                    English isn't my first language, and even so I re-wrote that sentence two or three times. If you get confused just ask me to clarify. Luckily, you didn't jump into conclusions unlike some in here
                    Yeah, I know. Welcome to Social Media in al its glory.

                    Originally posted by Karri View Post
                    I believe the term is slander, and you are partially true. I've seen the trend buckle lately though. You can also think of it as an over-correction.

                    In fact, just today there was a case of a Finnish-Somalian MEP getting caught lying about some racist confrontation. Five years ago no one would have questioned him, today everyone questioned him.
                    I think it is better to question people in authority than not to.


                    Originally posted by Karri View Post
                    So, being accused of something that you didn't do is an injustice, but being a racist and facing the consequences of that is not. I see far more of the latter than the former.
                    I don't know where you are, but Accusation is the preferred weapon of everyone on the net these days, and you have made accusations in every post you have put in this thread.


                    Originally posted by Karri View Post
                    Instead, you throw random conspiracy theories at everything? What you say is part of the problem: I will not do this, unless it supports my point of view. Right?
                    All I did was tell you that it would be a very bad thing if the power of accusation becomes the ultimate power, and I pointed out the fact that you have a very questionable Avatar ... aren't these things adding up yet?

                    Originally posted by Karri View Post
                    The word you is not referring to you personally here
                    Yes, you keep saying that, and then you keep doing it over and over again.
                    You don't think very much of us, do you?
                    .


                    Originally posted by Karri View Post
                    Not true. Not about the leftist part, and not about the political genocide.
                    It was at this point that I gave up on trying to bring you back from the fringe.
                    All I did was reprint you own words and then show them in a larger context. ie; what communists were doing to right-wingers at the same point in history.
                    THEY have grievances, too, and blowing off another person's concerns unless they support YOUR own point of view is wrong.

                    It is why people don't even want to talk to each other anymore.

                    Originally posted by Karri View Post
                    We've strayed quite far from the original post, which was just to point out that this is how a lot of humans have always been. There are those who yell about all wrongdoings as long as they get to decide what the wrongdoing is. I wonder, who listens to them?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Karri View Post

                      Caught? What a lion tamer you are! Catching me like this! Next up, catch a grammar book and check if the word "you" can be used to refer to unspecified person. Catch you(2nd person) some knowledge! You(indefinite) can never have too much of it!

                      Meanwhile, I'll fix the original post. My mistake of mixing 2nd and 3rd person, and assuming that a native speaker would understand the difference.
                      And what about your argument? Or are you backing out of that too?
                      "It is a fine fox chase, my boys"

                      "It is well that war is so terrible-we would grow too fond of it"

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by American87 View Post

                        And what about your argument? Or are you backing out of that too?
                        Here you go, all "you" words in 3rd person unless otherwise mentioned:

                        You (2nd person) say PC culture, but the only thing that has changed are the reasons to get ostracised. In other words, 50 - 70 years ago if you supported gay rights, human rights (for anyone else but white males), or any leftist agenda the fear machine would kick in, and you'd lose everything (even your life). The funny part about this is that you don't feel oppressed because you are oppressed, you feel oppressed because you can't oppress anymore.

                        You could also say that the bullied have become bullies, and am not a big fan of social media witch hunts either. But if you can't stop yourself from shouting racial and other slurs online, where everything is for everyone to see (possibly forever), then you really have no one else to blame but yourself.
                        Wisdom is personal

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Back on the topic of collecting and using your personal data.

                          Hipaa Laws concerning your medical records; https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-profes...acy/index.html

                          Apparently, like Pelosi, Hillary, Obama, and the far left Democrats, Google considers itself above the laws.
                          https://www.wsj.com/articles/google-...ns-11573496790
                          “Breaking News,”

                          “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                            All you have to do to throw these trackers off is put in random noise and nonsense on a semi-regular basis... They soon return craziness for you to enjoy.
                            Or - you could try to actually make sense on the internet and not be a raving lunatic, it's a bit far-fetched but it works too

                            For example - while typing this I see an ad. for the Oxford Business School and their "Artifical Intelligence Programme" - whatever that may be - in the upper right corner, what do you guys see there ?

                            When I spend too much time in Brexit threads I see ads for cheap tickets to London, when I used to debate Ukraine/Russia here a lot, it was pretty blondes that wanted to marry me...
                            Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                            Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              You could use the Epic browser. I'm sure it's not 100% foolproof protection but it cuts out a lot.
                              https://www.epicbrowser.com

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Hello. This whole internet thing reminds me of the invention of dynamite. The guy that invented it used it for mining. But look what it turned into. When cell phones first came out I thought, I can call and get towed, or use a map feature. But look what its turned into. Dark web, perverts, malware, viruses, trojan warriors etc. Did you ever think you would see the day when companies would come around that you had to pay to protect you? It's creepy and depressing. I guess it's like the weenie in the bootle, once it comes out it's never going back in. Once humans invent something nice, losers will find a way to f-it up. What's going on right now and in the future is horrible. I have been told that in the United States instead of handing someone a resume or application, you do it online. How impersonal. I assume this paperwork has your social security number that can be stolen by the toilet bowl lapping scum. The planet is screwed.
                                "Advances in technology tend to overwhelm me."

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