Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Trump's NATO Problem...Abandoning Allies?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Trump's NATO Problem...Abandoning Allies?

    https://news.yahoo.com/trump-neglect...104155396.html

    French President Emmanuel Macron on Thursday drew fire for saying the North Atlantic Treaty Organization was brain dead and its core collective defense commitments in doubt.

    “The French President has chosen drastic words. This is not my view of cooperation within NATO,” German Chancellor Angela Merkel told reporters when asked about Macron’s comments, which were published earlier Thursday in an interview with The Economist. She described the alliance as “irreplaceable.”

    The French president has been pushing hard for Europe to build up its own defense capacity and a more independent foreign policy, rather than rely on the U.S. and NATO alone. That’s a project where he has found traction in Germany, among other countries.

    But in Thursday’s interview he appeared to go further, calling for a wholesale change in Europe’s security architecture, in which NATO’s future role was unclear.

    “What we are currently experiencing is the brain death of NATO,” Macron said. He described fading U.S. commitment and lack of consultation -- especially under President Donald Trump -- as undermining the foundations of the alliance and forcing Europe to rethink its security.
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Massena View Post
    https://news.yahoo.com/trump-neglect...104155396.html“What we are currently experiencing is the brain death of NATO,” Macron said. He described fading U.S. commitment and lack of consultation -- especially under President Donald Trump -- as undermining the foundations of the alliance and forcing Europe to rethink its security.
    Why does the U.S.A. always have to be committed to every foreign problem which needs military assistance ???

    Why is it the U.S.A.'s job to "police" the world. Once again I have to show the chart which is mind boggling. Germany and France spend a combined amount of just over 100 billion compared to the U.S.A.'s nearly 650 billion yet they are complaining SMH 2018_military_expenditures_by_country.png
    If France and Germany are also "allies" what have they done?
    Theo mir ist die munition ausgegangen ich werde diesen ramman auf wiedersehen uns in walhalla

    Comment


    • #3

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Kurt Knispel View Post


        Why does the U.S.A. always have to be committed to every foreign problem which needs military assistance ???

        Why is it the U.S.A.'s job to "police" the world. Once again I have to show the chart which is mind boggling. Germany and France spend a combined amount of just over 100 billion compared to the U.S.A.'s nearly 650 billion yet they are complaining SMH 2018_military_expenditures_by_country.png
        If France and Germany are also "allies" what have they done?
        The French and the Germans don't doubt the other guys will come to their aid. The US these days? Eh...

        Comment


        • #5
          NATO was created out of fear that the USSR and it's Warsaw Pact would attack and invade Western Europe. West Germany anyway, at least.

          Warsaw Pact no longer exists.
          USSR is dis-solved and broken up and it's former core "socialist republic" Russia is not likely to march all over and conquer Europe to the West of it's borders.

          So one key issue/question is how much is NATO necessary today?

          Is it time to dissolve NATO and/or redefine it?

          Comment


          • #6
            Russia is still a threat and would like nothing more than NATO to collapse. US isolationism would be catastrophic. Of course, Trump may just be doing Putin's bidding...
            We are not now that strength which in old days
            Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
            Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
            To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Kurt Knispel View Post


              Why does the U.S.A. always have to be committed to every foreign problem which needs military assistance ???

              Why is it the U.S.A.'s job to "police" the world.
              Would you like the Russians and Chinese to assume that role? If there is a vacuum created by Trump's lame excuse for a 'foreign policy' that could very well happen.

              We are not now that strength which in old days
              Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
              Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
              To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

              Comment


              • #8
                Which is why he's giving aid and selling weapons to the Ukraine.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The EU wants to develop as a power block in opposition to the US and China. Of course Macron wants to end NATO.
                  "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Massena View Post
                    Russia is still a threat and would like nothing more than NATO to collapse. US isolationism would be catastrophic. Of course, Trump may just be doing Putin's bidding...
                    The EU can handle Russia, if it wants. We need to concentrate on China and the rest of Asia. That's where the future problems are, and where the Japanese and South Koreans are building up their power projection. I don't mind backing countries who are looking after their own defense but need some help due to a mismatch.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Kurt Knispel View Post


                      Why does the U.S.A. always have to be committed to every foreign problem which needs military assistance ???
                      Because you chose to be a hegemon. You took that role - right or wrong. You wanted it. Mostly to protect your economic interests, but also because you came out of WW2 feeling like Arnie... all buff and flexing.

                      You chose to get involved in every quarrel in the world from 45 - 91, and you dragged a lot of us into them. Hell you were doing it until 2003.

                      But now times have changed. You aren't really sure of who is an enemy you need to worry about, and who is one that can be ignored, but under that you are navel gazing and blaming allies (that you co-opted) for not playing by the old rules now you are moving the goal posts weekly.

                      This isn't a go at the US. It just is what it is. Nobody in Germany makes you put that much money into the armed forces, anymore than South Korea can do that. Nobody made you come to us and ask to use Darwin as a port and base 2000 marines there. That was your call.

                      So be the biggest kid on the block or don't. But don't blame others for not wanting to take steroids to look like you. The US is a beast unto itself. A Powerhouse probably unseen since Rome of its glory days. Don't blame the rest of the world for not being able not being able to field 28 legions. Just be thankful that many countries can and will put one, two, three or so by your side in whatever adventure you next choose.
                      Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

                      That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        We became this way because of the immediate threat of the dictator and murderer Stalin after the end of WWII. After he saw the results of Hiroshima and Nagasaki he could not annex every country up to the English Channel which was his plan. Then when they developed their nukes in 49 the cold war started.

                        Problem is the cold war ended nearly 30 years ago. We don't need to spend double the money per year on military spending then every other relevant country in the world combined anymore. We could cut our military budget in half and still be the leader in annual military expenditure world wide.

                        We have these lurking all over. Takes one push of the button.

                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio-class_submarine
                        Theo mir ist die munition ausgegangen ich werde diesen ramman auf wiedersehen uns in walhalla

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                          NATO was created out of fear that the USSR and it's Warsaw Pact would attack and invade Western Europe. West Germany anyway, at least.

                          Warsaw Pact no longer exists.
                          USSR is dis-solved and broken up and it's former core "socialist republic" Russia is not likely to march all over and conquer Europe to the West of it's borders.

                          So one key issue/question is how much is NATO necessary today?

                          Is it time to dissolve NATO and/or redefine it?
                          NATO really is pretty much defunct as an organization today. The US likely has far more interests and concerns in Asia than in Europe. The US should let Europe go back to defending themselves rather than doing it for them. For the US, China is a far greater threat than Russia.

                          Cutting out a few billion in bases in Europe and bringing the troops and equipment there home would be a good thing. Let the Europeans pay for their own defense. After all, doesn't the Left proclaim how great European economies are?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                            NATO was created out of fear that the USSR and it's Warsaw Pact would attack and invade Western Europe. West Germany anyway, at least.

                            Warsaw Pact no longer exists.
                            USSR is dis-solved and broken up and it's former core "socialist republic" Russia is not likely to march all over and conquer Europe to the West of it's borders.

                            So one key issue/question is how much is NATO necessary today?

                            Is it time to dissolve NATO and/or redefine it?
                            I think I can recall correctly that NATO was formed before the Warsaw Pact.

                            p.s. Yep, I confirmed it. We are supposedly a branch of a military forum composed mostly of older, Cold War era people...
                            Last edited by pamak; 07 Nov 19, 21:22.
                            My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Rojik View Post

                              Because you chose to be a hegemon. You took that role - right or wrong. You wanted it. Mostly to protect your economic interests, but also because you came out of WW2 feeling like Arnie... all buff and flexing.

                              You chose to get involved in every quarrel in the world from 45 - 91, and you dragged a lot of us into them. Hell you were doing it until 2003.

                              But now times have changed. You aren't really sure of who is an enemy you need to worry about, and who is one that can be ignored, but under that you are navel gazing and blaming allies (that you co-opted) for not playing by the old rules now you are moving the goal posts weekly.

                              This isn't a go at the US. It just is what it is. Nobody in Germany makes you put that much money into the armed forces, anymore than South Korea can do that. Nobody made you come to us and ask to use Darwin as a port and base 2000 marines there. That was your call.

                              So be the biggest kid on the block or don't. But don't blame others for not wanting to take steroids to look like you. The US is a beast unto itself. A Powerhouse probably unseen since Rome of its glory days. Don't blame the rest of the world for not being able not being able to field 28 legions. Just be thankful that many countries can and will put one, two, three or so by your side in whatever adventure you next choose.
                              Wow you really don't like us, but I half a$$ agree with you, we try to play Nanny in too many places, however, if your a$$ ever gets in a sling AGAIN, ain't it nice that we have your back.
                              Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

                              Comment

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X