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  • #31
    Originally posted by Skoblin View Post

    BBC is one of the most accomplished propaganda machines around. I'm sorry if you are unaware of this.
    Within the atmosphere of a lively and rigorous free press, Something that RT doesn't have in Russia. Don't be sorry for me please, I am content to live in my world of benevolent ignorance of BBC state run treachery.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Massena View Post

      He blew himself up while being pursued by troops with dogs. If you had actually seen anything on the subject you would have known that. You're insistence on misinformation is quite startling.
      interesting.
      the pagan NORSE believed that you could only enter either Valhalla, of the halls of Freya, if you died with a weapon in your hand......
      Hopefully, Lord Odin takes a bomb switch into account....

      Although I suspect Lord Odin just sends him straight to :
      Or the subbasement of the 'very thin virgins'...
      The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Schmart View Post

        What is that alternative?

        In my mind, the alternative is general knowledge and education. Read books and magazines, learn about psychology and how and why people do the things they do, learn about history and political-science to help put things in perspective.
        Alternative news sources. Alex Jones, Breitbart, etc. These guys have a bigger axe to grind and are less reliable than the MSM. Even worse, the random youtubers with 0 credentials now being viewed as legitimate sources. There is a growing number of people who shun the MSM while clinging to every word Alex Jones says and it's a very dangerous trend for our society.
        "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
        - Benjamin Franklin

        The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by American87 View Post


          It sounds like your only source is the MSM. Do you listen to FOX or conservative talk radio? Even CNN has nothing to charge Trump with.
          I don't have cable TV anymore and I don't follow MSM, left or right. I try to seek out moderate, non-partisan, non-inflammatory reporting. Not easy to find though.

          This impeachment is unfounded and part of the continuing witch hunt against trump.
          Like I say, I don't think many could/would dispute his shady reputation. Details are sometimes difficult to pin down, but I generally believe that where there's smoke, there's a good chance there's fire.

          why is Schiff keeping his interrogations secret?
          How secret are they really? There's republicans sitting in on the committees and depositions. I'm not an expert on the ins and outs of the precedents for impeachment hearings in the past, but I understand that it's nothing unusually new. There are general legal precedents to keeping a certain lid on things before making the details public (such as witnesses co-ordinating their stories, etc). Details being fed/leaked to the media for partisan purposes however, is not cool. Again, general legal precedent about not discussing ongoing litigation...

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Schmart View Post

            I don't have cable TV anymore and I don't follow MSM, left or right. I try to seek out moderate, non-partisan, non-inflammatory reporting. Not easy to find though.



            Like I say, I don't think many could/would dispute his shady reputation. Details are sometimes difficult to pin down, but I generally believe that where there's smoke, there's a good chance there's fire.



            How secret are they really? There's republicans sitting in on the committees and depositions. I'm not an expert on the ins and outs of the precedents for impeachment hearings in the past, but I understand that it's nothing unusually new. There are general legal precedents to keeping a certain lid on things before making the details public (such as witnesses co-ordinating their stories, etc). Details being fed/leaked to the media for partisan purposes however, is not cool. Again, general legal precedent about not discussing ongoing litigation...

            When you say there's "smoke" or "shady" behavior, what are you referring to?

            The impeachment began because a whistleblower supposedly had information that Trump was working out a quid pro quo with a foreign government. But Trump released the transcript of the call, and there's nothing there. That's the point that's skimmed over on the left—there's nothing to impech Trump over, and we know this because he released the transcript.

            The current interrogations are being held to see if anyone has testimony that could be used to impeach Trump. That's right, the meetings are held for the purpose of finding something to impeach Trump on. This is backwards, because in the past there has been grounds for impeachment before an impeachment inquiry was made.

            No one knows what will happen though. The issue still has to be brought to a vote in the House before it goes to the Senate for trial, and Pelosi has not called a House vote yet. Since Republicans control the Senate, she will actually need hard evidence that Trump did something worthy of impeachment. If Democrats controlled both chambers of Congress, she might push through the impeachment anyway, and the Dems might vote "guilty" even with no evidence. But as it stands, there is nothing there to impeach Trump over.
            "It is a fine fox chase, my boys"

            "It is well that war is so terrible-we would grow too fond of it"

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            • #36
              Originally posted by American87 View Post


              It sounds like your only source is the MSM. Do you listen to FOX or conservative talk radio? Even CNN has nothing to charge Trump with.

              This impeachment is unfounded and part of the continuing witch hunt against trump.

              If the Democrats are so sure of themselves, why is pencil-neck Schiff keeping his interrogations secret?
              Why do you assume that FOX is not part of the MSM?

              After all, even Trump went after them because they do not work for him anymore...

              https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...11516701347842

              You also have to clarify if you consider taking Hannity type or other similar conservative talk radio shows (Limbaugh, Savage and such "colorful" personalities) as legitimate sources of getting information. I thought the argument is that these guys just talk about their opinions...
              My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by pamak View Post

                Why do you assume that FOX is not part of the MSM?

                After all, even Trump went after them because they do not work for him anymore...

                https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...11516701347842

                You also have to clarify if you consider taking Hannity type or other similar conservative talk radio shows (Limbaugh, Savage and such "colorful" personalities) as legitimate sources of getting information. I thought the argument is that these guys just talk about their opinions...
                That tweet is from August. At one of his recent rallies, Trump was saying how he likes Fox and Friends. He's always liked Fox and Friends, which means it's a good show for finding out what Trump is actually doing, without the liberal spin.

                I don't consider FOX as part of the MSM because it's not a mainstream network. "Mainstream" means politically correct, imo. FOX is considered right-wing propaganda by the P.C. crowd, which only endorses the liberal viewpoint. So FOX may lead in the ratings, and many people may agree with it, but you're more likely to find CNN on at airports and bars and stuff like that, and P.C. convserstation at the workplace is usually liberal. That's why there's so many "secret" Trump voters that help distort the polls.
                "It is a fine fox chase, my boys"

                "It is well that war is so terrible-we would grow too fond of it"

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by American87 View Post

                  That tweet is from August. At one of his recent rallies, Trump was saying how he likes Fox and Friends. He's always liked Fox and Friends, which means it's a good show for finding out what Trump is actually doing, without the liberal spin.

                  I don't consider FOX as part of the MSM because it's not a mainstream network. "Mainstream" means politically correct, imo. FOX is considered right-wing propaganda by the P.C. crowd, which only endorses the liberal viewpoint. So FOX may lead in the ratings, and many people may agree with it, but you're more likely to find CNN on at airports and bars and stuff like that, and P.C. convserstation at the workplace is usually liberal. That's why there's so many "secret" Trump voters that help distort the polls.
                  We have a different definition about what is considered MSM and about its role.

                  The media should actually be adversarial to the executive power. It should not bend to make sure that the president likes the program. The president (any president)should feel uncomfortable in front of a real and honest journalist. Of course, when Meghan tried to do that during a 2016 national debate, it made Trump's go after her menstruation.

                  Also, it makes more sense to classify as MSM programs that have a big following. This is what makes them "mainstream" I do not now how you come to conclusions about the probability of having FOX or CNN at bars or different airports in the US. i suspect the demographics of the likely audience affects such decisions and a bar in CA will behave differently compared to a bar in Alabama.

                  The "secret" Trump supporters can very well be the result of people feeling embarrassed to admit in public that they are wiling to support a person lie Trump. This is even more difficult for conservatives who for years tout their christian morality and family values. And that was more of an issue in 2016 when predictions were against Trump and nobody wants to be openly linked to such a loser. Today things are different. Such supporters got a lot of confidence and predictions are 50 50 with some even giving an advantage to Trump.

                  p.s. My lifestyle is not linked to bars but from whatever little I have seen from being there occasionally is that they are tuned to sports
                  Last edited by pamak; 27 Oct 19, 19:58.
                  My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by pamak View Post

                    We have a different definition about what is considered MSM and about its role.

                    The media should actually be adversarial to the executive power. It should not bend to make sure that the president likes the program. The president (any president)should feel uncomfortable in front of a real and honest journalist. Of course, when Meghan tried to do that during a 2016 national debate, it made Trump's go after her menstruation.

                    Also, it makes more sense to classify as MSM programs that have a big following. This is what makes them "mainstream" I do not now how you come to conclusions about the probability of having FOX or CNN at bars or different airports in the US. i suspect the demographics of the likely audience affects such decisions and a bar in CA will behave differently compared to a bar in Alabama.

                    The "secret" Trump supporters can very well be the result of people feeling embarrassed to admit in public that they are wiling to support a person lie Trump. This is even more difficult for conservatives who for years tout their christian morality and family values. And that was more of an issue in 2016 when predictions were against Trump and nobody wants to be openly linked to such a loser. Today things are different. Such supporters got a lot of confidence and predictions are 50 50 with some even giving an advantage to Trump.
                    I don't think the president should feel uncomfortable in front of the media. He should have nothing to worry about, because he should be doing everything properly. In fact he should relish fair and honest journalism, if he is doing his job right.

                    FOX does not bend to Trump. I've watched FOX for years, and the people Trump likes have always been his political type. FOX has plenty of establishment Republicans and Democrats who do not tow his line at all. Some of them, believe it or not, genuinely support Trump and speak for his interests. That's fine. You can watch Fox and Friends then watch another anchor who disagrees with Trump.

                    I know a "secret" Trump supporter. She worked in a coroporate office in Manhattan, and her boss was an out-and-out liberal. This Trump supporter had to keep her views a secret lest she come across as opposed to her boss in some way. The boss never should have placed her employees in this position. But that's how it is. Liberals generally speak freely of their politics, while conservatives keep it to themselves. It may be the same as "The Silent Majority" that elected Nixon. That is, the liberals were making a big scene about their politics, while most people kept their mouths shut and voted for the Conservative. Liberals are generally outspoken, public-minded people who are into revolutions, movements, protests, and things like that. It comes with the territory.
                    "It is a fine fox chase, my boys"

                    "It is well that war is so terrible-we would grow too fond of it"

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by American87 View Post

                      I don't think the president should feel uncomfortable in front of the media. He should have nothing to worry about, because he should be doing everything properly. In fact he should relish fair and honest journalism, if he is doing his job right.

                      FOX does not bend to Trump. I've watched FOX for years, and the people Trump likes have always been his political type. FOX has plenty of establishment Republicans and Democrats who do not tow his line at all. Some of them, believe it or not, genuinely support Trump and speak for his interests. That's fine. You can watch Fox and Friends then watch another anchor who disagrees with Trump.

                      I know a "secret" Trump supporter. She worked in a coroporate office in Manhattan, and her boss was an out-and-out liberal. This Trump supporter had to keep her views a secret lest she come across as opposed to her boss in some way. The boss never should have placed her employees in this position. But that's how it is. Liberals generally speak freely of their politics, while conservatives keep it to themselves. It may be the same as "The Silent Majority" that elected Nixon. That is, the liberals were making a big scene about their politics, while most people kept their mouths shut and voted for the Conservative. Liberals are generally outspoken, public-minded people who are into revolutions, movements, protests, and things like that. It comes with the territory.
                      A president -even the most honest president - will make mistakes and honest journalism should be able to uncover such mistakes. So, yes, I expect any president to feel uncomfortable in front of a competent journalist!

                      I was not talking about FOX in general. I was talking about the FOX and Friends. I have seen FOX News personalities being wiling to expose Trump's mistakes (Wallace, Smith and Meghan) but when was the last time when people in Fox and Friends did the same?

                      I do not know what corporation is the one you are talking about but here in CA it is a big "no" "no" to openly introduce politics at work, including as a supervisor or boss.

                      p.s. Do you have any theory of "secret voters" about Truman's surprising victory?

                      smith_dewey_truman_19481.jpg?quality=85&w=1123.jpg
                      Last edited by pamak; 27 Oct 19, 20:30.
                      My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by pamak View Post

                        A president -even the most honest president - will make mistakes and honest journalism should be able to uncover such mistakes. So, yes, I expect any president to feel uncomfortable in front of a competent journalist!

                        I was not talking about FOX in general. I was talking about the FOX and Friends. I have seen FOX News personalities being wiling to expose Trump's mistakes (Wallace, Smith and Meghan) but when was the last time when people in Fox and Friends did the same?

                        I do not know what corporation is the one you are talking about but here in CA it is a big "no" "no" to openly introduce politics at work, including as a supervisor or boss.

                        p.s. Do you have any theory of "secret voters" about Truman's surprising victory?

                        smith_dewey_truman_19481.jpg?quality=85&w=1123.jpg
                        I don't know that period of history too well.

                        I'm not sure what you're getting at. There were "secret" Trump voters in 2016. These were people who voted for Trump, but at the exit polls and polls during the campaign, they said they were voting for Hillary. This is one reason the MSM was caught flat-footed on election night.

                        People aren't as shy anymore. Trump's rallies the past few weeks have been historically successful. At Dallas, 21% of the attendees were Democrat. Twelve percent haven't voted in at least 16 years, and they say they're voting for Trump in 2020. These are their own words.

                        So Trump may be changing the mainstream. He's "Making America Great Again." We'll have to see how things play out in the long-term though.
                        "It is a fine fox chase, my boys"

                        "It is well that war is so terrible-we would grow too fond of it"

                        Comment

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