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  • #16
    Originally posted by ljadw View Post

    The Kurds are as murderous as the Turks .More Kurds have been killed by Kurds than by Turks .
    Absolutely a Kurdish state is almost guaranteed to devolve into civil war.

    It is ironic and hypocritical for the same people who support the EU, multiculturalism, diversity, Globalism, and reduced military spending to support the creation of an ethno state.
    We hunt the hunters

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post

      Absolutely a Kurdish state is almost guaranteed to devolve into civil war.

      It is ironic and hypocritical for the same people who support the EU, multiculturalism, diversity, Globalism, and reduced military spending to support the creation of an ethno state.
      They do not care about the Kurds, it is only to sabotage Trump .

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
        The Turks have a state, the Kurds do not. The Turkish state regards even the prospect of one as an existential threat, justifying just about any means. Iran, Iraq and Syria has somewhat similar views on the matter. No friendship for the tens of millions of Kurds of the world.

        Cutting through the arguments of simple self-interest and sheer cynicism that clings to the situation, what it all lands in is the question whether such situation is not an injustice?

        All the the arguments against any kind of Kurdish state eventually boils down to rationalizing that supposedly this is not the case.
        It is not the mission of the US to eliminate injustices : if you want eternal peace, you will have eternal war . US foreign policy is not about friendship : US have no friends . Everyone acts in his own interest.
        It was not the mission of the US to liberate after WWII the countries of Eastern Europe .
        US did not intervene to stop the Killing Fields, or the massacres in Rwanda . Why should US soldiers die to make a Kurdish state possible,or impossible ? Did the inhabitants of Tibet, Timor, South Sudan not have a right on their own state, and the inhabitants of South Tirol ?
        80 years ago, some Austrian wanted a Gross Deutschland . We have seen the results . A Gross Kurdistan would be worse : not many of the 30 million Kurds would survive to live in Gross Kurdistan .
        A foreign policy based on morality is a foreign policy based on ideology and a foreign policy based on ideology is a foreign policy based on hypocrisy .

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
          Or so the TDS befuddled will claim proving once again that the left and their neo Con counter parts are incapable of seeing the World as it is.

          The salient point is that if Trump's ceasefire and peace arrangements work out he will have saved more Kurdish lives than any president in history. Proving once again that the Elites are not only corrupt but incompetent.
          You left out 'stupid'.
          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by ljadw View Post

            It is not the mission of the US to eliminate injustices : if you want eternal peace, you will have eternal war . US foreign policy is not about friendship : US have no friends . Everyone acts in his own interest.
            It was not the mission of the US to liberate after WWII the countries of Eastern Europe .
            US did not intervene to stop the Killing Fields, or the massacres in Rwanda . Why should US soldiers die to make a Kurdish state possible,or impossible ? Did the inhabitants of Tibet, Timor, South Sudan not have a right on their own state, and the inhabitants of South Tirol ?
            80 years ago, some Austrian wanted a Gross Deutschland . We have seen the results . A Gross Kurdistan would be worse : not many of the 30 million Kurds would survive to live in Gross Kurdistan .
            A foreign policy based on morality is a foreign policy based on ideology and a foreign policy based on ideology is a foreign policy based on hypocrisy .
            Go tell that to the Democrats.
            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
              The Turks have a state, the Kurds do not. The Turkish state regards even the prospect of one as an existential threat, justifying just about any means. Iran, Iraq and Syria has somewhat similar views on the matter. No friendship for the tens of millions of Kurds of the world.

              Cutting through the arguments of simple self-interest and sheer cynicism that clings to the situation, what it all lands in is the question whether such situation is not an injustice?

              All the the arguments against any kind of Kurdish state eventually boils down to rationalizing that supposedly this is not the case.
              \\\\\excellent points.
              Is this ' communal cats in the sandbox' morning?
              The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                The presence of a 100 US soldiers in the region was one of the causes of the invasion .
                The invasion was provoked by the Kurdish advance to the border,and the Kurds advanced to the border because they were convinced that the US presence would dissuade the Turks to intervene and if they intervened ,there would be a big war with as result Gross Kurdistan .
                The Kurds were taking hostages the US soldiers in Northern Syria .
                Trump knew that their presence was risky and that's why he wanted their withdrawal .
                But as usual, the Pentagon knew better ..
                Notice that you also do not offer a proof for what you think would have happened. So stop having irrational demands about proof. As I said, one can only create arguments, and you still have not formed a compelling argument to justify your belie that the Turks would be willing to kill 100 US soldiers. There was no provocation by the Kurds at the time of the invasion since US troops were patrolling the area that separated the Kurds and the Turks.

                Turkey could live with the Kurds near its borders up until now. It was certainly better for them to be patient and wait until after the Americans were pulled out of the region following a timetable that benefited the US interests (including prestige) instead of moving forward with a plan that would have cost the life of US soldiers

                https://www.militarytimes.com/news/y...rtheast-syria/

                .
                US conducts new joint patrol with Turkey in northeast Syria



                So far, fighters from the most prominent Syrian Kurdish group — the People’s Protection Units or YPG — have moved away from border posts.

                But Turkey remains unhappy with the size of the area it calls a “safe zone,” calling for a 30-kilometer deep (19-mile) zone monitored by Turkish soldiers




                And even if there was such provocation, it still would not make sense for the Turks to provoke the US by killing 100 of its soldiers. The rest about the Kurds taking US soldiers as hostages is just an unsubstantiated claim. Again, PKK which is fighting against Turkey is just a small part of the Syrian Kurds.
                My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by pamak View Post

                  Notice that you also do not offer a proof for what you think would have happened. So stop having irrational demands about proof. As I said, one can only create arguments, and you still have not formed a compelling argument to justify your belie that the Turks would be willing to kill 100 US soldiers. There was no provocation by the Kurds at the time of the invasion since US troops were patrolling the area that separated the Kurds and the Turks.

                  https://www.militarytimes.com/news/y...rtheast-syria/
                  US conducts new joint patrol with Turkey in northeast Syria

                  So far, fighters from the most prominent Syrian Kurdish group — the People’s Protection Units or YPG — have moved away from border posts.

                  But Turkey remains unhappy with the size of the area it calls a “safe zone,” calling for a 30-kilometer deep (19-mile) zone monitored by Turkish soldiers






                  And even if there was such provocation, it still would not make sense for the Turks to provoke the US by killing 100 of its soldiers. The rest about the Kurds taking US soldiers as hostages is just an unsubstantiated claim. Again, PKK which is fighting against Turkey is just a small part of the Syrian Kurds.
                  Proof that the PKK is just a small part of the Syrian Kurds ?
                  If the Syrian Kurds were no danger for Turkey, Erdogan would not attack them .
                  The Turks would not kill 100 US soldiers to provoke US : these US soldiers could only be killed in a war between US and Turkey, and such a war would be caused by the presence of US soldiers in the fighting zone : the withdrawal of these soldiers has prevented a war between US and Turkey .
                  There was no place for 100 US soldiers in a war zone where the PKK and the Turkish army were shooting as each other . To defend themselves, they should chose a side . Something that Trump refused to do ,as a war between Turkey and the Syrian Kurds was not the business of the US . Trump did what his predecessors did .
                  If the Kurds like to fight, they can go after ISIS, and if there is no one of ISIS left, the Kurds should stock their arms and not provoke the Turks .
                  There are 2 million Syrian Kurds and 100 million Turka : the Syrian Kurds can only win with the help of the US, and for such a help, war between the USA and Turkey is needed.
                  The Kurds have deliberatedly provoked this war, hoping that this would escalate to a war between US and Turkey .

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                    Proof that the PKK is just a small part of the Syrian Kurds ?
                    If the Syrian Kurds were no danger for Turkey, Erdogan would not attack them .
                    The Turks would not kill 100 US soldiers to provoke US : these US soldiers could only be killed in a war between US and Turkey, and such a war would be caused by the presence of US soldiers in the fighting zone : the withdrawal of these soldiers has prevented a war between US and Turkey .
                    There was no place for 100 US soldiers in a war zone where the PKK and the Turkish army were shooting as each other . To defend themselves, they should chose a side . Something that Trump refused to do ,as a war between Turkey and the Syrian Kurds was not the business of the US . Trump did what his predecessors did .
                    If the Kurds like to fight, they can go after ISIS, and if there is no one of ISIS left, the Kurds should stock their arms and not provoke the Turks .
                    There are 2 million Syrian Kurds and 100 million Turka : the Syrian Kurds can only win with the help of the US, and for such a help, war between the USA and Turkey is needed.
                    The Kurds have deliberatedly provoked this war, hoping that this would escalate to a war between US and Turkey .
                    You lose any demand for getting proof when you make claims without proof. PKK represents the Turkish Kurds and not the Syrian ones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdis...rkers%27_Party

                    Your claim about the fate of the US soldiers presupposes a willingness by the Turks to start a war against a superpower and their most powerful military and economic ally instead of choosing to wait a little bit longer and start operations after the US troops left the region (presumably Trump wanted to bring them home) ON A TIMETABLE THAT BENEFITS THE US INTERESTS AND PRESTIGE! With his impulsive decision, Trump (and the US as an extension) looked so weak that even the Trump lemmings in the Congress stood up to Trump. So, as usual your claims make no sense.

                    The Syrian Turks and the Turkish Kurds have different objectives. The former are interested in fighting Assad toga independence in Syria while the PKK (Turkish Kurds) want to bring independence to the millions of Turkish Kurds who live in Turkey.
                    My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by pamak View Post

                      Notice that you also do not offer a proof for what you think would have happened. So stop having irrational demands about proof. As I said, one can only create arguments, and you still have not formed a compelling argument to justify your belie that the Turks would be willing to kill 100 US soldiers. There was no provocation by the Kurds at the time of the invasion since US troops were patrolling the area that separated the Kurds and the Turks.

                      Turkey could live with the Kurds near its borders up until now. It was certainly better for them to be patient and wait until after the Americans were pulled out of the region following a timetable that benefited the US interests (including prestige) instead of moving forward with a plan that would have cost the life of US soldiers

                      https://www.militarytimes.com/news/y...rtheast-syria/

                      .
                      US conducts new joint patrol with Turkey in northeast Syria



                      So far, fighters from the most prominent Syrian Kurdish group — the People’s Protection Units or YPG — have moved away from border posts.

                      But Turkey remains unhappy with the size of the area it calls a “safe zone,” calling for a 30-kilometer deep (19-mile) zone monitored by Turkish soldiers




                      And even if there was such provocation, it still would not make sense for the Turks to provoke the US by killing 100 of its soldiers. The rest about the Kurds taking US soldiers as hostages is just an unsubstantiated claim. Again, PKK which is fighting against Turkey is just a small part of the Syrian Kurds.
                      Military times is owned by the Gannett Company,which owns also the fanatical anti-Trump USA Today .
                      Thus ......
                      Or you did not know who is behind military times,or you knew but hided it .

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                        Military times is owned by the Gannett Company,which owns also the fanatical anti-Trump USA Today .
                        Thus ......
                        Or you did not know who is behind military times,or you knew but hided it .
                        No proof, and no evidence.

                        Also, you demonstrate extreme ignorance since the agreement between the US and Turkey along the borders is well known.
                        My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Ashton Carter (Secretary of defense of Obama ) said that the YPG and the PKK are tied .
                          Both are left wing organisations,with whom US should not be allied .
                          And the PKK is a anti western terrorist organisation .The difference between both is semantics .
                          Both are not hostile to ISIS -ISIS is hostile to them- but both are hostile to Turkey .

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by pamak View Post

                            No proof, and no evidence.

                            Also, you demonstrate extreme ignorance since the agreement between the US and Turkey along the borders is well known.
                            Google military times and you will see that the owner is the Gannett Company ,a member of Deep State .
                            The agreement between USA and Turkey is irrelevant . What is relevant is the presence of the PKK and YPG on the border . Which is unacceptable for Turkey . Thus ....

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by pamak View Post

                              You lose any demand for getting proof when you make claims without proof. PKK represents the Turkish Kurds and not the Syrian ones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdis...rkers%27_Party

                              Your claim about the fate of the US soldiers presupposes a willingness by the Turks to start a war against a superpower and their most powerful military and economic ally instead of choosing to wait a little bit longer and start operations after the US troops left the region (presumably Trump wanted to bring them home) ON A TIMETABLE THAT BENEFITS THE US INTERESTS AND PRESTIGE! With his impulsive decision, Trump (and the US as an extension) looked so weak that even the Trump lemmings in the Congress stood up to Trump. So, as usual your claims make no sense.

                              The Syrian Turks and the Turkish Kurds have different objectives. The former are interested in fighting Assad toga independence in Syria while the PKK (Turkish Kurds) want to bring independence to the millions of Turkish Kurds who live in Turkey.
                              The PKK operates from Syria . And collaborates with the YPG which is only an extension of the PKK.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                                Google military times and you will see that the owner is the Gannett Company ,a member of Deep State .
                                The agreement between USA and Turkey is irrelevant . What is relevant is the presence of the PKK and YPG on the border . Which is unacceptable for Turkey . Thus ....
                                I am not your servant!
                                Feel free to quote the part which says that military times is a member of Deep State.
                                Meanwhile, instead of searching for conspiracy theories, you can google any source you want to read and learn about the agreement that existed between the US and Turkey for having the US troops patrolling the Turkish Syrian border. What is relevant is (or at east was) the presence of US troops on the borders which separated PKK and the Turkish army.
                                My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                                Comment

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