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  • #31
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

    Compare all the positive press that Michele Obama received(and still does) to that for Melania Trump and one gets some scale of what I'm referring to.

    "... naturally legitimate concerns and criticism." part and parcel with our political system, just look back to time of JFK for another example of bringing in family to top positions. My point is about the amount and extent of such, which is far more volume than BHO and Co. had to deal with,
    Michele got more involved in politics and as a result she received positive press coverage from liberal media and negative press coverage from conservative media. Melania has been very discreet after she dared to praise Michele in public. Her "master" obviously could not trust her. So, as a natural result the press rarely covers her.
    My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Canuckster View Post

      Do you understand why Obstruction of Justice is considered a crime?
      Because anything that makes the government's job of persecuting-- err, prosecuting-- someone needs to be punished. How dare anyone not just admit their guilt and do as the government tells them.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

        Because anything that makes the government's job of persecuting-- err, prosecuting-- someone needs to be punished. How dare anyone not just admit their guilt and do as the government tells them.
        So are you saying Obstruction of Justice isn't a crime or that Trump didn't do it? Mueller lists a number of Obstruction of Justice examples just couldn't go beyond that because he couldn't indict a sitting President (I thought Presidents weren't above the law?)

        Muelller explains it all in his summary at the start of Volume II. The full report is easy to locate on line. Barr's 4 page summary is BS.

        Then there are all those redacted bits...

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Canuckster View Post

          Do you understand why Obstruction of Justice is considered a crime?
          ...
          Obstruction of justice, in United States jurisdictions, is a crime consisting of obstructing prosecutors, investigators, or other government officials. Common law jurisdictions other than the United States tend to use the wider offense of perverting the course of justice.

          Obstruction is a broad crime that may include acts such as perjury, making false statements to officials, witness tampering, jury tampering, destruction of evidence, and many others. Obstruction also applies to overt coercion of court or government officials via the means of threats or actual physical harm, and also applying to deliberate sedition against a court official to undermine the appearance of legitimate authority.
          ...
          Obstruction of justice is an umbrella term covering a variety of specific crimes.[1]Black's Law Dictionary defines it as any "interference with the orderly administration of law and justice".[2] Obstruction has been categorized by various sources as a process crime,[3] a public-order crime,[4][5] or a white-collar crime.[6]

          Obstruction can include crimes committed by judges, prosecutors, attorneys general, and elected officials in general. Federal law

          In federal law, crimes constituting obstruction of justice are defined primarily in Chapter 73 of Title 18 of the United States Code.[7][8] This chapter contains provisions covering various specific crimes such as witness tampering and retaliation, jury tampering, destruction of evidence, assault on a process server, and theft of court records.[9] It also includes more general sections covering obstruction of proceedings in federal courts, Congress,[10] and federal executive agencies.[9] One of the broadest provisions in the chapter, known as the Omnibus Clause, states that anyone who "corruptly... endeavors to influence, obstruct, or impede, the due administration of justice" in connection with a pending court proceeding is subject to punishment.[11]

          Statistics regarding the frequency of obstruction of justice prosecutions are unclear.[12] In 2004, federal agencies arrested 446 people for obstruction, representing 0.3 percent of all federal arrests.[13] This does not include, however, people who were charged with obstruction in addition to a more serious underlying crime.
          ...
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstruction_of_justice

          The Fifth Amendment provides protection from self-incrimination.
          With regard to Trump's Federal Income Tax returns, Congress could subpoena these from the IRS.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Canuckster View Post

            I think full financial disclosures should be made mandatory for those seeking higher office. If someone doesn't like it then find another job.
            So far it's not a legal requirement, though this is something to consider. Probably should extend to anyone seeking government employment and/or elected office, at all levels. At most state and Federal situations, there are like we have here, a Public Disclosure Commission(PDC) to which candidates must report all contributions and so far this seems sufficient for most concerns.

            Originally posted by Canuckster View Post
            As far as Biden goes, line him up in front of a firing squad and shoot him. I don't care. Now back to Trump...
            Funny. Biden hasn't done anything of such a capital offense level, that we know of.

            Originally posted by Canuckster View Post
            Take a look at the following link and see how often Russia comes up with regards to Trump. If you don't see any probable cause then I don't know what else I can tell you.
            Should I see any problem if a similar list was focused on how often Canada, or England, or Germany, or Japan, etc. " ... comes up with regards to Trump."???
            I also looked at the sources for such and would seem there is little objectivity there.
            "probable cause" as we've seen for nearly three years now is rather subjective and in the "eye of the holder".
            Tell me whatever you want or not, but will take more than I've seen so far to change my view/position to yours, or similar.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...ates_elections

            Originally posted by Canuckster View Post
            Aren't you even a little concerned about his integrity?
            I was far more concerned on the lack of integrity from Clinton, or Obama, FWIW.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
              It's a good thing that I am not President, I would have lost it with Pelosi a long time ago!
              And I guess you would arrange the execution ( a la Mexicoe ( 1900) or Africa 1964) ..o.f anybody who did not agree with the clown running things.... God ! Help America....you guys need it bad....

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by pamak View Post

                What you say is just nonsense. Biden carried an official US policy as he was instructed by Obama and did it in the open together with other international institutions and countries.
                And if Trump is sooo hesitant and evasive in revealing his tax returns, it is a choice that will naturally raise suspicions and invite political criticism. As I said, his behavior cannot be compared to Biden's as you tried to do.
                "Fast and Furious" was also "official" White House policy, but doesn't make that, or Biden's blackmailing of Ukraine any more ethical, and also makes such of questionable legality.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Bow View Post

                  And I guess you would arrange the execution of anybody who did not agree with the clown running things.... God ! Help America....you guys need it bad....
                  We need it more it’s even worse here with the lunatics running things.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

                    ...
                    Obstruction of justice, in United States jurisdictions, is a crime consisting of obstructing prosecutors, investigators, or other government officials. Common law jurisdictions other than the United States tend to use the wider offense of perverting the course of justice.

                    Obstruction is a broad crime that may include acts such as perjury, making false statements to officials, witness tampering, jury tampering, destruction of evidence, and many others. Obstruction also applies to overt coercion of court or government officials via the means of threats or actual physical harm, and also applying to deliberate sedition against a court official to undermine the appearance of legitimate authority.
                    ...
                    Obstruction of justice is an umbrella term covering a variety of specific crimes.[1]Black's Law Dictionary defines it as any "interference with the orderly administration of law and justice".[2] Obstruction has been categorized by various sources as a process crime,[3] a public-order crime,[4][5] or a white-collar crime.[6]

                    Obstruction can include crimes committed by judges, prosecutors, attorneys general, and elected officials in general. Federal law


                    In federal law, crimes constituting obstruction of justice are defined primarily in Chapter 73 of Title 18 of the United States Code.[7][8] This chapter contains provisions covering various specific crimes such as witness tampering and retaliation, jury tampering, destruction of evidence, assault on a process server, and theft of court records.[9] It also includes more general sections covering obstruction of proceedings in federal courts, Congress,[10] and federal executive agencies.[9] One of the broadest provisions in the chapter, known as the Omnibus Clause, states that anyone who "corruptly... endeavors to influence, obstruct, or impede, the due administration of justice" in connection with a pending court proceeding is subject to punishment.[11]

                    Statistics regarding the frequency of obstruction of justice prosecutions are unclear.[12] In 2004, federal agencies arrested 446 people for obstruction, representing 0.3 percent of all federal arrests.[13] This does not include, however, people who were charged with obstruction in addition to a more serious underlying crime.
                    ...
                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstruction_of_justice
                    Its also covered in the Mueller Report (in bold)...

                    TABLE OF CONTENTS
                    – VOLUME II INTRODUCTION TO VOLUME II...............................................1
                    EXECUTIVE SUMMARY TO VOLUME II .................................................. .......3
                    I. BACKGROUND LEGAL AND EVIDENTIARY PRINCIPLES .........................9A
                    9 A. Legal Framework of Obstruction of Justice ................................................9B
                    9 B. Investigative and Evidentiary Considerations .........................................12
                    12 II. FACTUAL RESULTS OF THE OBSTRUCTION INVESTIGATION.............15

                    The Fifth Amendment provides protection from self-incrimination.
                    Does that mean one is able to refuse to provide documents as requested by Congress?

                    With regard to Trump's Federal Income Tax returns, Congress could subpoena these from the IRS.
                    Are you sure they haven't?

                    If it was so easy to get them via that route I'd be surprised if they haven't tried already.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Canuckster View Post

                      Its also covered in the Mueller Report (in bold)...

                      TABLE OF CONTENTS
                      – VOLUME II INTRODUCTION TO VOLUME II...............................................1
                      EXECUTIVE SUMMARY TO VOLUME II .................................................. .......3
                      I. BACKGROUND LEGAL AND EVIDENTIARY PRINCIPLES .........................9A
                      9 A. Legal Framework of Obstruction of Justice ................................................9B
                      9 B. Investigative and Evidentiary Considerations .........................................12
                      12 II. FACTUAL RESULTS OF THE OBSTRUCTION INVESTIGATION.............15



                      Does that mean one is able to refuse to provide documents as requested by Congress?



                      Are you sure they haven't?

                      If it was so easy to get them via that route I'd be surprised if they haven't tried already.

                      Of course, they have already tried to get them from the IRS



                      https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...-probably-wont
                      According to Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, the answer is a resounding no – at least when it comes to the request submitted by Democratic Congressman Richard Neal on April 3. Mnuchin said it “lacks a legitimate purpose.”

                      Although many Americans
                      have been interested in reviewing the tax returns of President Donald Trump since the 2016 campaign, this was the first time newly empowered House Democrats had formally sought those records. The president has claimed he can’t release them because they are being audited.





                      My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        So you all would like Trump to possibly violate regulations and or the law and release tax returns currently be audited and held from public disclosure by the IRS. ???

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                          So you all would like Trump to possibly violate regulations and or the law and release tax returns currently be audited and held from public disclosure by the IRS. ???
                          The President's 'Under Audit' Tax Excuse Is, And Always Has Been, Bogus

                          https://www.forbes.com/sites/victorl.../#1fd1e0e31818

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                            So you all would like Trump to possibly violate regulations and or the law and release tax returns currently be audited and held from public disclosure by the IRS. ???
                            No law against it.

                            Sorry

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Canuckster View Post
                              The President's 'Under Audit' Tax Excuse Is, And Always Has Been, Bogus

                              https://www.forbes.com/sites/victorl.../#1fd1e0e31818
                              But from your link:
                              ...
                              Naturally, tax attorneys may advise clients against publicly disclosing such information, but this is a matter of legal counsel, not prohibition. A recent CNN article put the issue in proper context. "Technically, there's nothing preventing Trump from releasing his tax returns now," the article stated. "Most tax attorneys would typically advise a client against doing so if they're under audit to avoid further scrutiny. Once the tax returns are out, reporters could find something that the IRS missed. Of course, most tax attorneys don't represent presidents or people running for the White House."
                              ...

                              Again, no US law requires this of POTUS or any office holder so he has his right to privacy on this matter.

                              Would you be willing to make all your financial and tax records available to the public?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

                                But from your link:
                                ...
                                Naturally, tax attorneys may advise clients against publicly disclosing such information, but this is a matter of legal counsel, not prohibition. A recent CNN article put the issue in proper context. "Technically, there's nothing preventing Trump from releasing his tax returns now," the article stated. "Most tax attorneys would typically advise a client against doing so if they're under audit to avoid further scrutiny. Once the tax returns are out, reporters could find something that the IRS missed. Of course, most tax attorneys don't represent presidents or people running for the White House."
                                ...

                                Again, no US law requires this of POTUS or any office holder so he has his right to privacy on this matter.

                                Would you be willing to make all your financial and tax records available to the public?
                                So he wouldn't violate any laws or regulations, check.

                                Sorry again

                                Comment

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