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  • More crazy from California

    California has now passed into law a bill that limits residential water consumption to 55 gallons per day per person in a home.

    https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2018...hower-laundry/

    https://kfiam640.iheart.com/content/...mit-water-use/

    This effectively means you can't use a bathtub or take a bath anymore in California. You'll go over your water allotment. Laundry? Better off going to the laundromat and letting them take the hit for water use. Forget watering anything like plants and landscape.

    Now think about this. The state will begin to monitor how many people live in a residence and meter the water they use per day. Can you say "Big Brother?"

    Talk about Fascists!

  • #2
    And the unique fascist-specific part would be…?
    "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return"

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Rutger View Post
      And the unique fascist-specific part would be…?
      Fascism.

      Fascism is neither inherently left or right, Fascism is the merger of government and commercial enterprise, with the government in total control. The government owns the means of production, or colludes heavily with major corporations to impose government control.

      I can't help but wonder how many times a citizen living in Commiefornia will be allowed to flush the toilet, and if that activity would be monitored also.

      After all, a toilet uses water.

      In a not too distant future we're gonna end up with a complete arrest on life itself, where everything you do is monitored, registered, taxed etc.

      Comment


      • #4
        The government passed a law. Now they'll pay companies to install the mandatory monitoring equipment on homes across the state. I'd expect they will mandate that every home has a "smart" water meter installed at the curb c0ck (and yes, that's what the valve is called)



        Anyway, I'd also expect the state to be able to turn your water off if you exceed your allotment, being the virtuous and caring folks they are.

        I doubt this will sit well with the uber rich who have things like this:



        Because evaporation alone is probably more than 55 gallons a day...

        It might even cause those high-tech companies to decide that quality of life issues demand they move to another state...


        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
          The government passed a law. Now they'll pay companies to install the mandatory monitoring equipment on homes across the state. I'd expect they will mandate that every home has a "smart" water meter installed at the curb c0ck (and yes, that's what the valve is called)



          Anyway, I'd also expect the state to be able to turn your water off if you exceed your allotment, being the virtuous and caring folks they are.

          I doubt this will sit well with the uber rich who have things like this:



          Because evaporation alone is probably more than 55 gallons a day...

          It might even cause those high-tech companies to decide that quality of life issues demand they move to another state...

          You do realize that your article is more than a year old, right?

          So much for your predictions...
          My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by pamak View Post

            You do realize that your article is more than a year old, right?

            So much for your predictions...
            Things like this don't happen overnight. It takes time for a new government regulation like this to really go into full effect. Same thing with the now mandated openADR smart thermostats. In time, they'll be everywhere in Cali and the state will be able to control what the setting is if they want.

            https://knowledgeproblem.com/2008/01...ogrammable_th/

            So, if the grid is pulling too much power the state can simply turn off your air conditioner or heat pump for a while...

            California also mandates solar power electrical generation on all new homes raising the cost of a home by $10,000 to $30,000.

            https://www.greentechmedia.com/artic...oval#gs.5i0lor

            It will make homes just that much more unaffordable there. The state claims homeowners will see a monthly savings overall... I doubt that as the government has a poor track record of making good predictions about future costs.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

              Things like this don't happen overnight. It takes time for a new government regulation like this to really go into full effect. Same thing with the now mandated openADR smart thermostats. In time, they'll be everywhere in Cali and the state will be able to control what the setting is if they want.

              https://knowledgeproblem.com/2008/01...ogrammable_th/

              So, if the grid is pulling too much power the state can simply turn off your air conditioner or heat pump for a while...

              California also mandates solar power electrical generation on all new homes raising the cost of a home by $10,000 to $30,000.

              https://www.greentechmedia.com/artic...oval#gs.5i0lor

              It will make homes just that much more unaffordable there. The state claims homeowners will see a monthly savings overall... I doubt that as the government has a poor track record of making good predictions about future costs.


              If the grid s pulling too much power, it is better to have an automatic response that turns off certain appliances than having a general black out which will affect all appliances. I am pretty sure that with the smart grids that we already have and the AI that runs them we will soon have such responses as a last resort, and frankly I see nothing wrong with that since the alternative of having a black out by overloading will be worse.


              When was the last time you checked about a residential solar panel installation and payback?

              https://www.solar-estimate.org/news/solar-payback


              In general terms residential solar payback, given current solar panels cost as at September 2017 will range between 5-10 years, depending on your unique characteristics. This means almost every solar system will pay for itself and save the owner money over the 25-year lifetime of the solar system.
              My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by pamak View Post



                If the grid s pulling too much power, it is better to have an automatic response that turns off certain appliances than having a general black out which will affect all appliances. I am pretty sure that with the smart grids that we already have and the AI that runs them we will soon have such responses as a last resort, and frankly I see nothing wrong with that since the alternative of having a black out by overloading will be worse.

                When was the last time you checked about a residential solar panel installation and payback?

                https://www.solar-estimate.org/news/solar-payback


                In general terms residential solar payback, given current solar panels cost as at September 2017 will range between 5-10 years, depending on your unique characteristics. This means almost every solar system will pay for itself and save the owner money over the 25-year lifetime of the solar system.
                I trot this sort of thing out every time one of those door-to-door sales guys shows up trying to tell me solar is the future.



                https://ark-invest.com/research/resi...l-solar-panels

                Essentially, you are paying for 20+ years of electricity today installing home solar. You also have to factor in the potential costs of a loss due to something like a storm or natural disaster. Yes, the insurance company pays off for that, then they jack your rates through the rafters for taking out a massive claim.

                Now, you may trot out that there are government subsidies to offset the costs and make this profitable for you. Well, now you have essentially Socialism going on. Your are using OPM to pay for your solar installation. The cost didn't change, only who pays. I for one don't want to pay for my neighbor's solar stupidity. Let him pay for it himself.

                I figure that if electricity rose to .20 per KWH I can install (labor is free because I can do it myself) a natural gas generator to power my home cheaper than solar and usable 24/7 if necessary.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post




                  I trot this sort of thing out every time one of those door-to-door sales guys shows up trying to tell me solar is the future.



                  https://ark-invest.com/research/resi...l-solar-panels

                  Essentially, you are paying for 20+ years of electricity today installing home solar. You also have to factor in the potential costs of a loss due to something like a storm or natural disaster. Yes, the insurance company pays off for that, then they jack your rates through the rafters for taking out a massive claim.

                  Now, you may trot out that there are government subsidies to offset the costs and make this profitable for you. Well, now you have essentially Socialism going on. Your are using OPM to pay for your solar installation. The cost didn't change, only who pays. I for one don't want to pay for my neighbor's solar stupidity. Let him pay for it himself.

                  I figure that if electricity rose to .20 per KWH I can install (labor is free because I can do it myself) a natural gas generator to power my home cheaper than solar and usable 24/7 if necessary.
                  I cannot take seriously a chart about the cost effectiveness of solar panels without showing crucial information, such as geographic location of the installation, federal and state solar tax breaks and financial incentives

                  https://www.gosolarcalifornia.ca.gov...taxcredits.php


                  My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Government incentives for solar are about as stupid as incentives to grow more corn.
                    We hunt the hunters

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                      Government incentives for solar are about as stupid as incentives to grow more corn.
                      Feel free to think so.

                      Meanwhile, from Gardner's link of the supposedly "smart" financial analysts

                      [6] The analysis shown below is for an 8.5kW system and pulls inputs from SolarCity’s own presentation. 1284 hours of annual sunshine,

                      Go see now the typical number of sunshine hours in states like CA, AZ and NM

                      https://weather.nmsu.edu/climate/about/

                      The average number of hours of annual sunshine ranges from near 3,700 in the southwest to 2,800 in the north-central portions.

                      The above is about NM

                      https://weather-and-climate.com/aver...tes-of-America

                      The average annual amount of sunhours is: 3070.0 hours

                      The above is in SF in northern CA
                      My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by pamak View Post

                        I cannot take seriously a chart about the cost effectiveness of solar panels without showing crucial information, such as geographic location of the installation, federal and state solar tax breaks and financial incentives
                        As I pointed out, government subsidies, tax breaks, etc., just shift the cost of the installation onto other people. They don't reduce it so they are irrelevant to the full cost of installation.

                        Solar only works roughly 50% of the time (when the sun is up), and with home solar installs the efficiency of the panels is far less than 100% nameplate even when the sun is at local noon. Why? Home solar installs are fixed panels that are set at the pitch of the roof. They are often poorly sited as well.



                        So, for only a fraction of a day, really just a few hours, a home solar array is producing a good amount of power compared to the nameplate installation size. A good rule of thumb is you get one Kilowatt day for every five kilowatts of installed capacity on a solar system.

                        Many of the installs are poorly done. In some the roof leaks when it rains, or the mounting brackets form dams that hold water on the roof letting it soak in and leak through. In a good number of home solar installs the panels don't even face South. Oh, you better have a fairly new or new roof on the home or you could be facing having to remove the panels to re-roof. I've seen mis-sized wiring, breakers, and other components in these systems too.

                        But poor work aside, the panels being fixed at poor angles and often not facing South means they produce a fraction of what they are supposed to even when weather is perfect. Of course, you also have to clean the panels regularly on dirt and other film will build up on them and reduce efficiency further. If you or your neighbors have trees and other landscape planted, these may further reduce an installation's efficiency putting it in shadow for all or part of a day.



                        An example of what I mean.



                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                          As I pointed out, government subsidies, tax breaks, etc., just shift the cost of the installation onto other people. They don't reduce it so they are irrelevant to the full cost of installation.

                          Solar only works roughly 50% of the time (when the sun is up), and with home solar installs the efficiency of the panels is far less than 100% nameplate even when the sun is at local noon. Why? Home solar installs are fixed panels that are set at the pitch of the roof. They are often poorly sited as well.



                          So, for only a fraction of a day, really just a few hours, a home solar array is producing a good amount of power compared to the nameplate installation size. A good rule of thumb is you get one Kilowatt day for every five kilowatts of installed capacity on a solar system.

                          Many of the installs are poorly done. In some the roof leaks when it rains, or the mounting brackets form dams that hold water on the roof letting it soak in and leak through. In a good number of home solar installs the panels don't even face South. Oh, you better have a fairly new or new roof on the home or you could be facing having to remove the panels to re-roof. I've seen mis-sized wiring, breakers, and other components in these systems too.

                          But poor work aside, the panels being fixed at poor angles and often not facing South means they produce a fraction of what they are supposed to even when weather is perfect. Of course, you also have to clean the panels regularly on dirt and other film will build up on them and reduce efficiency further. If you or your neighbors have trees and other landscape planted, these may further reduce an installation's efficiency putting it in shadow for all or part of a day.



                          An example of what I mean.


                          Nothing in your post addresses the simple fact that you tried to bring a financial analysis of the cost effectiveness of solar panels in CA which was based on 1284 hours of annual sunshine, when even San Francisco in northern CA has an average of 3070.0 sunhours. This is about 2.5 times more than the base line of the link you used. No, you neighbor's landscape and dirt is not enough of a concern for the return of the investment as long as you live in places like CA or your state, AZ. Plus there is a monthly maintenance cost that is included in the study to cover the cleaning of a fixed solar panel which otherwise requires minimum maintenance.

                          There are also technical alternatives to maintain the highest possible efficiency. For example, solar panels that automatically follow the sun and adjust their tilt based on sun's azimuth (varied with seasons). That technology exists since at least the 1990's,. I had a project as a mechanical engineer student to write a Fortran program related to such tracker. One can increase output by as much as 30% with such trackers.


                          Of course, there is always the alternative of having multiple fixed panels at different positions and angles. The best choice depends on the local factors.

                          As for the government subsidies ,explain how the reduction of my own taxes as a homeowner transfers the cost to other people. I thought that conservatives have no problem with such approach. Also, what is the cost for the subsidies that go to traditional forms of energy and what is the transfer of cost in terms of increased pollution that comes with such forms of energy?
                          Last edited by pamak; 23 Sep 19, 02:53.
                          My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                            California has now passed into law a bill that limits residential water consumption to 55 gallons per day per person in a home.

                            https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2018...hower-laundry/

                            https://kfiam640.iheart.com/content/...mit-water-use/

                            This effectively means you can't use a bathtub or take a bath anymore in California. You'll go over your water allotment. Laundry? Better off going to the laundromat and letting them take the hit for water use. Forget watering anything like plants and landscape.

                            Now think about this. The state will begin to monitor how many people live in a residence and meter the water they use per day. Can you say "Big Brother?"

                            Talk about Fascists!
                            And , of course, the rich, the celebrities and the politicians - especially the governor - will also religiously obey this law the same way the citizen serfs will be forced to...right?


                            Nah...didn't think so. Going to kill the CA new housing construction market, though. Possibly the entire tourist/hotel/motel industry as well. And of course, all those illegals living together in single family dwellings, washing and drinking and bathing, are going to tracked down a prosecuted as well.

                            Sure they will...



                            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by pamak View Post
                              As for the government subsidies ,explain how the reduction of my own taxes as a homeowner transfers the cost to other people.
                              The money you save is part of the overall sum the government needs to survive; therefore, reducing your portion of it merely transfers that demand onto the shoulders of others.

                              NOTHING IN LIFE IS FREE.

                              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                              Comment

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