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  • GM strike: Nearly 50,000 workers walk out at America's biggest automaker

    Our country hasn’t seen a strike like this in some time.

    50,000 American men and women are striking against general motors. It’s not as strong of a site as we saw in the early to mid 20th century though when in those times Americans who went on strike would have to carry weapons for protection from police and security whom would launch attacks against Americans some veterans whom merely went on strike to make there country a better place.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...ons/index.html

    But the strike still reminds us of those amazing pictures of American men and women black and white in other words our very ancestors who also went on strike in the 20th century.



    History stands by these Americans striking against general motors. If we go back into the American past we can see these pictures of heroic Americans white and black Christian alike many of whom are veterans who went on strike for various reasons... so history stands by these Americans striking against General Motors today.

    But yet some conservatives will try and tell us otherwise that somehow it’s some kind of communist aggression , or it’s the Mexicans fault, or it’s the Chinese fault. Basically some conservatives will whitewash history and try and claim that our own fellow ancestors did not take strike actions that instead it was all communists, Chinese , Mexican people, black people whom took to the streets for strike actions.

    Going on strike, being a member of a trade union is as Christian and American as it gets.
    Last edited by Stonewall_Jack; 17 Sep 19, 17:32.
    Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
    Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

    George S Patton

  • #2
    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
    Our country hasn’t seen a strike like this in some time.

    50,000 American men and women are striking against general motors. It’s not as strong of a site as we saw in the early to mid 20th century though when in those times Americans who went on strike would have to carry weapons for protection from police and security whom would launch attacks against Americans some veterans whom merely went on strike to make there country a better place.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...ons/index.html

    But the strike still reminds us of those amazing pictures of American men and women black and white in other words are very ancestors who also went on strike in the 20th century.



    History stands by these Americans striking against general motors. If we go back into the American past we can see these pictures of heroic Americans white and black Christian alike many of whom are veterans who went on strike for various reasons... so history stands by these Americans striking against General Motors today.

    But yet some conservatives will try and tell us otherwise that somehow it’s some kind of communist aggression , or it’s the Mexicans fault, or it’s the Chinese fault. Basically some conservatives will whitewash history and try and claim that our own fellow ancestors did not take strike actions that instead it was all communists, Chinese , Mexican people, black people whom took to the streets for strike actions.

    Going on strike, being a member of a trade union is as Christian and American as it gets.
    Nothing Christian or American abut it. It's about getting more money and cheaper health care from an industry already suffering from the inroads made by foreign manufacturers.

    The most likely result, besides the inevitable rise in new vehicle costs, will be the closure of another plant and thousands of more jobs sent overseas.

    And since you like history so much, this is the historical pattern following all of these acti0ns in the last few decades. Unions have outlived their original purpose, and are now more harmful than anything else.
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

    Comment


    • #3
      GM is in many ways the 'British Leyland' of auto manufacturers.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
        GM is in many ways the 'British Leyland' of auto manufacturers.
        Unfortunately true. But the fellows being paid by the hour aren't the reason.
        The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by marktwain View Post

          Unfortunately true. But the fellows being paid by the hour aren't the reason.
          Yes they are.

          Frank Langfitt

          Toyota was right to be scared. Compared to Japan, where auto workers and management worked together, labor relations in America were more like war. And at the GM plant in Fremont, it felt at times like hand to hand combat.
          A former running back from the University of Arkansas named Bruce Lee ran the western region for the United Auto Workers, and was in charge of the Fremont Union Local 1364. Now, normally, somebody like Bruce Lee is supposed to defend his union members no matter what, but even he says they were awful.

          Bruce Lee

          It was considered the worst workforce in the automobile industry in the United States. And it was a reputation that was well-earned. Everything was a fight.
          They spent more time on grievances and on things like that than they did on producing cars. They had strikes all the time. It was just chaos constantly.

          Jeffrey Liker

          The Fremont, California plant for General Motors was bad by GM standards. And GM's average was bad by Toyota standards. So this is the worst among the bad, mediocre plants in GM.

          Frank Langfitt

          Again, that's Jeffrey Liker, who has interviewed workers and management at Fremont for his research.

          Jeffrey Liker

          One of the expressions was, you can buy anything you want in the GM plant in Fremont. If you want sex, if you want drugs, if you want alcohol, it's there. During breaks, during lunchtime, if you want to gamble illegally-- any illegal activity was available for the asking within that plant.

          Frank Langfitt

          Sounds like prison.

          Jeffrey Liker

          Actually, the analogy to prison is a good analogy, because the workers were stuck there because they could not find anything close to that level of job and pay and benefits at their level of education and skill. So they were trapped there.
          And they also felt like we have a job for life, and the union will always protect us. So we're stuck here, and it's long term. And then all these illegal things crop up, so we can entertain ourselves while we're stuck here.

          Rick Madrid

          A lot of booze on the line. I mean, it was just amazing. And as long as you did your job, they really didn't care.

          Frank Langfitt

          What kind of booze? What were people drinking?

          Rick Madrid

          Whiskey, gin.

          Frank Langfitt

          That's Rick Madrid. He began working at the plant in 1955. He mounted tires on Chevy trucks.

          Rick Madrid

          When I was mounting tires, we'd drink. I'd bring a thermos of screwdrivers with me. But I never was into drugs.

          Frank Langfitt

          Sex?

          Rick Madrid

          Love it.

          Frank Langfitt

          Did you ever have sex at the plant?

          Rick Madrid

          Yeah.

          Frank Langfitt

          Frequently?

          Rick Madrid

          I wasn't that fortunate.

          Peter Ross

          There was a guy in here, he would be selling pot.

          Frank Langfitt

          Peter Ross repaired machinery on the assembly line at GM.

          Peter Ross

          I'd be walking through the plant with my tools and my radio, and you see a big cloud of smoke. You don't want to inhale it. You'd get a contact high.

          Frank Langfitt

          If you're wondering how people kept their jobs, well, back then, the UAW was still quite powerful. Under the union contract, it was almost impossible to fire anybody. And if management ticked off the union, workers could just shut the plant down in minutes.
          With that sort of leverage, absenteeism became absurd. On a normal day, one out of five workers just didn't show up. It was even worse on Mondays. Billy Haggerty worked in hood and fender assembly. He says so few workers showed up some mornings, management couldn't start the line.

          Billy Haggerty

          They brought a lot of people off the street to fill in when they didn't have enough people.

          Frank Langfitt

          Who would they find?

          Billy Haggerty

          Go right across the street to the bar and grab people out of there and bring them in.

          Frank Langfitt

          Workers filed grievances, formal complaints against management, over all kinds of things. Someone who isn't your boss asks you to clean something up? Hit them with a grievance. A manager steps in to do a job that isn't his? Grievance.
          The strategy was simple. Pile up grievances, real or imagined, by the thousands, then use them to squeeze money or concessions out of management. And Fremont workers struck back at their bosses in other ways. They'd intentionally screw up the vehicles, put Coke bottles or loose bolts inside the door panels so they'd rattle and annoy the customer. They'd scratch cars.
          Richard Aguilar inspected vehicles at the plant. He saw one guy do something even worse.

          Richard Aguilar

          He left some loose bolts on this front suspension. That was dangerous. I went and told the assistant manager right away. They went out there, and they checked it, and there were like 400 cars he'd done that too. He was mad because they had suspended him for drinking.

          Frank Langfitt

          By 1982, GM had had enough, and put the Fremont factory out of its misery. The company laid off thousands of workers and closed the plant.

          "NUMMI," This American Life, NPR 17 Jul 2015
          Bad corporate leadership, bad management, bad workforce -- Detroit had it all. By rights, after Detroit had screwed the whole country into defunding public transportation and buying into the private passenger car economy, we should have let Detroit sink under the weight of its own arrogance, sloth, inertia, apathy, and incompetence.
          I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by marktwain View Post

            Unfortunately true. But the fellows being paid by the hour aren't the reason.
            In part the UAW is part of the problem. They have been for decades. They overprice their labor and the workmanship is often mediocre. That resulted in GM (and other manufacturers) moving factories to Mexico, Right to Work states, and doing other dodges to pay what the union was demanding.
            When a union thinks that the only thing they should do for their employees is get them more pay and benefits for the same level of productivity and even fight to prevent their members from gaining more job skills, there's a major problem with that union.

            The UAW was a major reason that GM was an early adopter of automation in manufacturing, even with the attendant problems that brought for them. It was preferable to workers who did indifferent work and regularly struck demanding more money for the same job.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

              Nothing Christian or American abut it. It's about getting more money and cheaper health care from an industry already suffering from the inroads made by foreign manufacturers.

              The most likely result, besides the inevitable rise in new vehicle costs, will be the closure of another plant and thousands of more jobs sent overseas.

              And since you like history so much, this is the historical pattern following all of these acti0ns in the last few decades. Unions have outlived their original purpose, and are now more harmful than anything else.
              Well when I heard about this strike action of 50,000 of our fellow Americans, some of them veterans...I felt it was the greatest news I have heard in some time.

              Our Gov has a responsibility to our people and military to be able to produce our own things. However its done we need the middle class jobs back, whether its in steel, auto or some industry those Union jobs have to come back or else we are in trouble.

              Those 50,000 Americans striking from GM need our help. The UAW historically helped the allies win WW2, the UAW is as American as it gets as are the Americans, mothers, fathers, veterans, that are now striking against GM. All of us know that the jobs are not what they used to be in the country, we both know the Unions need to improve as well and get to the great level they were at for multiple generations. So the hope is amid this strike against GM the Employees, Union reps and Employers can all work out a great deal as they did in the American past.
              Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
              Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

              George S Patton

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

                Well when I heard about this strike action of 50,000 of our fellow Americans, some of them veterans...I felt it was the greatest news I have heard in some time.

                Our Gov has a responsibility to our people and military to be able to produce our own things. However its done we need the middle class jobs back, whether its in steel, auto or some industry those Union jobs have to come back or else we are in trouble.

                Those 50,000 Americans striking from GM need our help. The UAW historically helped the allies win WW2, the UAW is as American as it gets as are the Americans, mothers, fathers, veterans, that are now striking against GM. All of us know that the jobs are not what they used to be in the country, we both know the Unions need to improve as well and get to the great level they were at for multiple generations. So the hope is amid this strike against GM the Employees, Union reps and Employers can all work out a great deal as they did in the American past.
                What we don't need are uncompetitive wages being paid to workers. If assembly line work at a GM plant supports a competitive wage of say $20.00 an hour then that's what should be paid. If the union is demanding say, $40.00 an hour then they are idiots and GM would be stupid to pay that wage.
                Workers should be paid a wage commensurate with the work they do. Unskilled, repetitive, assembly work should not get a top wage as it isn't producing the added value to support it. Unions simply boost the cost of products by demanding otherwise.

                I'll add, the Industrial Age is over. It's finished. Mass manpower working in factories is a thing of the past and it isn't coming back. We're in the Electronics Age now and computers and AI are the future. That many people / workers can't adjust to that is no different than the early years of the Industrial Revolution and Industrial Age. Transitions like this always cause social upheaval and dramatic changes in how society operates. That's just how it is.
                Last edited by T. A. Gardner; 17 Sep 19, 18:33.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                  What we don't need are uncompetitive wages being paid to workers. If assembly line work at a GM plant supports a competitive wage of say $20.00 an hour then that's what should be paid. If the union is demanding say, $40.00 an hour then they are idiots and GM would be stupid to pay that wage.
                  Workers should be paid a wage commensurate with the work they do. Unskilled, repetitive, assembly work should not get a top wage as it isn't producing the added value to support it. Unions simply boost the cost of products by demanding otherwise.
                  Im glad you bring up wage here. And I agree with you and MM that unions need to make improvements.

                  In 1972 My Dad started at Ford and adjusted for inflation was making 34$ an hour. But he had to wait 90 days to get that pay, equal pay for equal work was the norm in those days and for multiple decades. Thats the key to this, for multiple generations the Steel and Auto workers got paid a good middle class salary, 30+ an hour with ot thats 45 an hour. In most places in the country perhaps save the big time cities like LA, San Fran or NYC, that is a middle class wage and your all set. These jobs were once had in the millions in our country now they have been decimated. Btw 35% of the country once had Union Jobs now that # is only 11 %.

                  The bridges, highways, automobiles, appliances in our homes all came from the middle class which saw multiple generations of Americans thriving in a American past that saw a better middle and upper class. So however its done, whether by Trump or someone else the USA has to get back to having as strong a middle class as it used to. And clearly when done correctly the Gov, Unions, Employees and Employers...can all work together to make the USA # 1 in the world.
                  Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                  Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                  George S Patton

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

                    Im glad you bring up wage here. And I agree with you and MM that unions need to make improvements.

                    In 1972 My Dad started at Ford and adjusted for inflation was making 34$ an hour. But he had to wait 90 days to get that pay, equal pay for equal work was the norm in those days and for multiple decades. Thats the key to this, for multiple generations the Steel and Auto workers got paid a good middle class salary, 30+ an hour with ot thats 45 an hour. In most places in the country perhaps save the big time cities like LA, San Fran or NYC, that is a middle class wage and your all set. These jobs were once had in the millions in our country now they have been decimated. Btw 35% of the country once had Union Jobs now that # is only 11 %.

                    The bridges, highways, automobiles, appliances in our homes all came from the middle class which saw multiple generations of Americans thriving in a American past that saw a better middle and upper class. So however its done, whether by Trump or someone else the USA has to get back to having as strong a middle class as it used to. And clearly when done correctly the Gov, Unions, Employees and Employers...can all work together to make the USA # 1 in the world.
                    As I added earlier, we're transitioning from the Industrial Age to the Electronics Age. We no longer need masses of workers doing a relatively narrow set of work functions or having only a few basic skills. The days where you could graduate high school with a mediocre education, go to work in a factory and soon be making a good wage doing a repetitive task or two that required only some basic skill training is dead and gone.

                    Skilled Journeyman trades are still needed and in demand. But, those take years, not weeks, to learn. We've also been selling kids on the idea that they must go to college to get a decent job. A journeyman trade skill will pay better and be more fulfilling than a liberal arts degree that makes you qualified to be the night manager at a Walgreens. Better, it costs less and you get paid to learn the trade.

                    Office work is no different than factory work. It too has been heavily automated. Companies no longer need massive mailrooms, no longer require an extensive printing plant. E-mail, texting, and the like have replaced that. Typists are no longer needed in masses.

                    This



                    Is now this:



                    Tens can do the job of hundreds better, faster, and more accurately.

                    This:



                    Has become this:



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                      Our Gov has a responsibility to our people and military to be able to produce our own things.
                      Where in the Bill of Rights does it say that?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                        Where in the Bill of Rights does it say that?
                        It isn't in the Bill of Rights, but can be inferred from the Preamble: '...establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare...'

                        Insure domestic tranquility and to promote the general welfare covers the point.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                          As I added earlier, we're transitioning from the Industrial Age to the Electronics Age. We no longer need masses of workers doing a relatively narrow set of work functions or having only a few basic skills. The days where you could graduate high school with a mediocre education, go to work in a factory and soon be making a good wage doing a repetitive task or two that required only some basic skill training is dead and gone.

                          Skilled Journeyman trades are still needed and in demand. But, those take years, not weeks, to learn. We've also been selling kids on the idea that they must go to college to get a decent job. A journeyman trade skill will pay better and be more fulfilling than a liberal arts degree that makes you qualified to be the night manager at a Walgreens. Better, it costs less and you get paid to learn the trade.

                          Office work is no different than factory work. It too has been heavily automated. Companies no longer need massive mailrooms, no longer require an extensive printing plant. E-mail, texting, and the like have replaced that. Typists are no longer needed in masses.

                          This



                          Is now this:



                          Tens can do the job of hundreds better, faster, and more accurately.

                          This:



                          Has become this:


                          Big issue it seems is that trade jobs or journeyman jobs as you say do not offer Americans the same numbers of jobs the steel and auto industry did. Thats the key to all of this. There were auto plants such as the Ford River Rogue Complex which had 75,000 workers, do you know of any fields of jobs you are talking about that compare to the millions of jobs, and the massively important contribution to Americas military that the steel and auto industry with its Unions have historically provided to the USA?

                          What about the American past when journeyman jobs were saw alongside steel and auto jobs, Lawyers, Doctors, Police all sorts of jobs offered to multiple generations of Americans in our past. We just have to figure out a way to make our country as successful as it used to be, and its clear for multiple generations Union Jobs were in abundance and for example contributed greatly to the US military the major wars such as WW2, Korea, and Vietnam. Something has got to be done here, those 50,000 Americans striking are our fellow Americans, some of them are veterans...they need to be paid the same good wages that multiple generations of Americans made at the Steel and auto plants, it worked once it can work again w/e the industry is.
                          Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                          Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                          George S Patton

                          Comment


                          • #14




                            The 2nd video shows above the support the strikers are getting from fellow Americans passing by the strike action. And again in the American past when children were forced to work, when men and women were forced to work hard jobs with terribly low pay what happened was that our ancestors took to the streets and forced change. Americans fought and died some of them veterans in various labor struggles in the history of the USA. In the 2nd video we hear a true injustice, Carmen Smith is shown and she has been working at GM for 4 years as a "temp worker"...nm the American tradition of equal pay for equal work, Smith is still making 15 $ an hour...while those right alongside her at work make over 30$ an hour.. So thats going to have to change, Smith is going to have to get 30$ an hour. What a country we live in, great place in many ways but in one huge way we have to change, the middle class is not what it used to be but there is hope and the hope is the middle class will come back.


                            People wonder why there is violence, drug addiction, high crime rates in inner cities that once thrived, its because the middle class has been shot. Where in the American past the inner cities saw more diversity and many of its people working the Steel and auto jobs, those jobs have been decimated and we have seen a crumbling infrastructure in inner cities across the USA, potholes all over the place....All of this though can be addressed, if the middle class jobs come back.
                            Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                            Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                            George S Patton

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The companies use "Temporary Workers" because it is to their advantage. I worked on Riverboats and Casinos for almost thirteen years. I hated "Temporary" status. It did not matter how many hours I worked, the company decided when I was worth being made Full Time. Carmen Smith is not going to ever get full time through a change in the law. The question is whether or not Carmen can live well on $15 an hour? If not, then she should seek a job elsewhere. Full Time means full time benefits. Temporary workers don't get them.

                              When I worked at the Casino we would get upset from about Thanksgiving to New Years because they would schedule everyone 48 hours a week and some got 56! I remember calling and asking the Louisiana Department of Labor about the issue and was told it was perfectly legal. A week later in January we would be back on 24 or 32 hours a week. I got full time when I learned to deal 15 different Carnival Poker Games and Pai Gow Poker! No one wanted to deal Pai Gow, but I actually liked the game. I had a knack for setting the dealer's hand. By the way, we would have to wait around after our shift ended to see if enough dealers showed up to send us home. I remember coming in the day my sister died. I told the Boss that my sister had died and we were burying her tomorrow and I would really appreciate it if I could even get off early. I worked my eight hours and guess what? The Pai Gow Poker dealer did not show up. I was really upset. I ended up on the game but someone came and tapped me out after five minutes. I made it through the ceremony the next day, but did not have to go in that night.

                              Pruitt
                              Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                              Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                              by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                              Comment

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