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  • Dissention embrace's censorship

    When the Free Speech Movement began in 1964 on the campus of UC Berkley the participants were predominantly liberal progressives and a minority.
    Today some 55 years later, the polarity has switched. Today it is the Conservatives and specifically, Conservative Christians who are struggling to protect their right to free speech, as they have become the dissenters to the will of the ever politically powerful liberal mindset that promotes the whims of fringe groups over the rights and voices of the majority by using such entities as the Human Rights Commission. As seen in this article, the HRC in 2012 used it’s bully pulpit (AKA Kangaroo Court) to force a private business owner, previously known as a US citizen going about his or her own business, not only to provide a service that they wished not to participate in for reasons that should have been of nobody else’s business, but to force a private, self-employed citizen to attend a diversity training course!
    How the hell did the left go from marching in the streets to promote free speech and by doing so, freedom of thought, to the current nanny state rules by self-appointed boards of thought police
    FRANKFORT, Ky. (AP) — A Kentucky print shop owner who refused to make a gay pride T-shirt argued before the Kentucky Supreme Court that he shouldn't be compelled to promote messages that go against his religious beliefs.

    Blaine Adamson, owner of Hands-On Originals in Lexington, declined a T-shirt order from Lexington's Gay and Lesbian Services Organization for the city's 2012 Gay Pride Festival. The design had the text "Lexington Pride Festival" wrapped around the number five, celebrating the event's fifth year.

    The city's Human Rights Commission said Adamson's refusal violated its gay-rights fairness ordinance.

    On Friday, the high court heard an attorney for the T-shirt maker argue that the First Amendment protects Adamson from having to print that message. The Human Rights Commission argued the T-shirt maker cannot pick and choose who it wants to serve in the Lexington community.

    "The purpose of the law is to remove the stigma of discrimination," the commission's lawyer, Edward Dove, told the court Friday.

    The Supreme Court will issue a ruling at a later date.

    Adamson said after the hearing with the high court that the T-shirt he was asked to print "goes against my conscience."

    "I will work with any person, no matter who they are and no matter what their belief systems are," Adamson said. "But when I'm presented with a message that conflicts with my faith, that's just something I cannot print, that's the line for me."

    Ray Sexton, executive director of Lexington's Human Rights Commission, said the high court will be making "a critical decision."

    "Can we use religion to legally discriminate against people based on sexual orientation and gender identity?" Sexton asked. He said a ruling against the commission could pave the way for businesses to discriminate on other grounds.

    He said commissions across the country are facing similar questions about religious objections and he said Kentucky's high court should provide some guidance.

    The Human Rights Commission ordered Adamson in 2012 to print the shirts and attend diversity training. Adamson appealed and won rulings from the circuit court and state court of appeals. The appeals court said in 2017 the printing business was subject to the city's fairness ordinance but nothing in that ordinance prohibits a private business "from engaging in viewpoint or message censorship."
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/printer-who-nixed-gay-pride-shirt-goes-to-ky-supreme-court/ar-AAGeBYj?li=BBnbcA1
    Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
    Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

  • #2
    Just for context, here is a link to the history of the Free Speech Movement

    https://www.jofreeman.com/sixtiesprotest/berkeley.htm

    https://fsm.berkeley.edu/free-speech-movement-timeline/
    Last edited by Urban hermit; 23 Aug 19, 23:20.
    Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
    Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

    Comment


    • #3
      Well in the US a company or local shop should operate as it sees fit. That said folks should be nice to each other. In a free society by accepting everyone the whole society is better.

      That said UH would you sell a cake to a gay couple? I would. In Catholicism its said that the earliest Church leaders approved of LGBT marriage. LGBT existed far before the modern times.. In the Roman Empire there was a Transgender Emperor in the Third Century. There are today various scholars saying there is a wealth of information to learn about LGBT of the ancient and middle ages..if people whom today refuse to bake a cake or sell something to LGBT folks, they ought learn about history,

      https://historycollection.co/11-rema...ple-history/5/

      https://www.makingqueerhistory.com/a...us-the-empress

      History is written by the victors. Unfortunately, this tends to mean that a lot of truth gets lost over the eons, peaceful tribes can become demonized, portrayals of nature reverence can be twisted into “witchcraft” and a lot of the accurate documentation becomes lost over the years in intellectual pogroms, such as the burning of the library at Alexandria in Egypt by the Romans.

      History was never meant to be that sort of boring “is there gonna be a test on this” sort of dry reading, but it often becomes so, because it becomes an onslaught of dates and peoples and events that we don’t recognize. It doesn’t help that with histories written by victors, many of the lives we might recognize ourselves in become obliterated from memory. Such is the case with most things transgender or homosexual, which at one time were seen to be rooted in similar human need. It was once said that there were three facets to our existence: survival, reproduction, and everything else — and to the person who made the case, “everything else” — which tended to encompass those things creative, imaginative and ingenious — could be classified as “art.” If ancient cultures bore understanding of this, then one wonders if transgender and same-sex love were seen as an art of their own… a creative exploration of love and affection.

      It may sound far-fetched, but history (even if written by victors) offers little glimpses of reality at times, and many of these glimpses tend to indicate that the gender transgression and gay / lesbian / bisexual love that is often vilified today was once quite respected and at times even encouraged. As a transgender and bisexual woman, I’m not personally inclined to think of myself as better than anyone or to try to portray myself as such, but a careful look at history does provide a rewarding sense that I have something to offer, and am a being worthy of respect.



      https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2016/02/...ancient-times/


      UH would you bake a cake for a LGBT couple or would you make a gay pride t shirt for a gay couple?
      Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
      Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

      George S Patton

      Comment


      • #4
        The question isn't what I would do, or what you would do, the question is does any individual have the right to turn down a customer?
        To me, the only color that matters is the color of the money. However, I was in the sales business for 12 years, people turned me down every day, should I have brought suit against them?
        Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
        Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
          The question isn't what I would do, or what you would do, the question is does any individual have the right to turn down a customer?
          To me, the only color that matters is the color of the money. However, I was in the sales business for 12 years, people turned me down every day, should I have brought suit against them?
          Well freedom of speech should prevail. That said I feel that turning down an offer from a salesman is different from a salesman turning down a customer IE because the customer is white and Christian.
          Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
          Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

          George S Patton

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

            Well freedom of speech should prevail. That said I feel that turning down an offer from a salesman is different from a salesman turning down a customer IE because the customer is white and Christian.
            Do you believe a private citizen and business owner should be forced by The Human Rights Commission to pay a fine and take a diversity class?
            No trial, no representation?
            The appeals court tends to think the HRC overstepped,

            The appeals court said in 2017 the printing business was subject to the city's fairness ordinance but nothing in that ordinance prohibits a private business "from engaging in viewpoint or message censorship."
            Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
            Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

              Do you believe a private citizen and business owner should be forced by The Human Rights Commission to pay a fine and take a diversity class?
              No trial, no representation?
              The appeals court tends to think the HRC overstepped,
              No I dont.

              That said the folks should sell a gay pride t shirt, to not do so is dishonorable.
              Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
              Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

              George S Patton

              Comment


              • #8
                I will work with any person, no matter who they are and no matter what their belief systems are," Adamson said. "But when I'm presented with a message that conflicts with my faith, that's just something I cannot print, that's the line for me."
                Unfortunately for him, he contradicted himself openly with this statement. However, the place to fight that battle is n the marketplace, not in the court. Forcing someone against their will or beliefs does not bring about acceptance but increases dissension, which is, in fact, covered by the First Amendment.

                We do not need constant interpretations of the Constitution. We need courts and judges who follow it.

                Incidentally, the First Amendment does not grant the right of free speech - it specifically prohibits any attempt to interfere with it.
                The First Amendment to the United States Constitution prevents the government from making laws which respect an establishment of religion, prohibit the free exercise of religion, or abridge the freedom of speech...
                That is more than clear enough.
                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

                  Do you believe a private citizen and business owner should be forced by The Human Rights Commission to pay a fine and take a diversity class?
                  No trial, no representation?
                  The appeals court tends to think the HRC overstepped,
                  The HRC's actions violate the Constitutional prohibition on any government infringement of free speech. So yes, they overstepped.

                  How about a city ordnance to prohibit gay pride events? How is that allowable when the same rights are taken from a business owner? There is a staggering lack of intelligence and common sense behind these cases.
                  Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

                    No I dont.

                    That said the folks should sell a gay pride t shirt, to not do so is dishonorable.
                    What about white power T shirts? Or KKK costumes? What if a neo Nazi entered a cake shop and wanted to buy a HIEL HITLER cake for Adolphs birthday?
                    Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                    Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The owner should have gone down a different path. The easiest way to stop this nonsense is for the owner to simply request / tell the customer that the shirts will have a disclaimer included that the shop printing them doesn't necessarily agree with the message. This will be printed on the shirt in a location that allows reasonable viewing while not interfering with the message the customer wants.

                      This is done regularly in many other industries and services, so why not the printed T-shirt business?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

                        What about white power T shirts? Or KKK costumes? What if a neo Nazi entered a cake shop and wanted to buy a HIEL HITLER cake for Adolphs birthday?
                        Well those are not nice people but LGBT people are very nice folks just like Christians or Muslims. Generally a kkk supporter Is going to have a very hard time finding a business that produces those types of shirts because those types of shirts are anti-American and against freedom. So someone who favors the clan is probably going to have to custom make their own T-shirt

                        If one does not want to bake a cake for a gay person or sell a T-shirt to an LGBT person that’s up to them but it’s the same thing as turning down someone who is white or black or Jewish. Turning down a Nazi is not the same thing as turning down a nice person who is living the life based on how they were born
                        Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                        Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                        George S Patton

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                          Well those are not nice people but LGBT people are very nice folks just like Christians or Muslims. Generally a kkk supporter Is going to have a very hard time finding a business that produces those types of shirts because those types of shirts are anti-American and against freedom. So someone who favors the clan is probably going to have to custom make their own T-shirt

                          If one does not want to bake a cake for a gay person or sell a T-shirt to an LGBT person that’s up to them but it’s the same thing as turning down someone who is white or black or Jewish. Turning down a Nazi is not the same thing as turning down a nice person who is living the life based on how they were born
                          So all this time you agree that the business owner had the right to deny service if the customer is part of a selective group that society has deemed "not nice" ?
                          Who decided who or what is "not nice" ?
                          Is this nice vs. not nice, protected by the 1st amendment?
                          Last edited by Urban hermit; 24 Aug 19, 13:21.
                          Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                          Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

                            What about white power T shirts? Or KKK costumes? What if a neo Nazi entered a cake shop and wanted to buy a HIEL HITLER cake for Adolphs birthday?
                            Is white supremacy comparable to being a homosexual?
                            "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                            - Benjamin Franklin

                            The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              No business owner is obligated to participate in hate speech. Homosexuality is not hate speech.
                              "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                              - Benjamin Franklin

                              The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

                              Comment

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