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Trump is Lying Again-What Else is New?

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  • Trump is Lying Again-What Else is New?

    Same 'stuff', different day. More conspiracy theory with no source material or evidence.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartandhp

    'As President
    Donald Trump ramps up his reelection
    for 2020, he is resurfacing an unsubstantiated gripe from 2016: That voter fraud
    cost him support
    .'

    'At rallies and on Twitter, the president has renewed calls for voter ID laws, revisited assertions that a large number of people voted fraudulently and signaled that, until those issues are resolved, other pending election measures are going nowhere.'


    'Trump hammered the theme during a New Hampshire rally this week, repeating a statement – dismissed by his allies and critics alike – that thousands of people fraudulently voted for Democrat Hillary Clinton there. She won the state by fewer than 3,000 votes.'
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

  • #2
    You might want to read this related thread. It pretty much demolishes your argument by demonstrating that Trump is more right than wrong in what he said on this:

    https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/f...-investigation

    We should have strong voter ID laws. We should limit mail-in balloting and make people vote in person after presenting proper ID. We should outlaw ballot harvesting. We should have a national system that tracks where people are registered to vote by state (not their exact address) and would prevent registration in more than one state.

    We should have a system that periodically requires people to reregister or perform other functions to maintain their registration. There should be a system that requires upon death of a person the registration system be notified and the person removed from voting roles.

    What possible reason is there for not having all that?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Massena View Post
      'At rallies and on Twitter, the president has renewed calls for voter ID laws
      There should be strong voter ID laws.

      Can anyone think of a single negative issue with requiring people to have ID to vote?

      "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Nichols View Post

        There should be strong voter ID laws.

        Can anyone think of a single negative issue with requiring people to have ID to vote?
        No more so called popular vote victories in Presidential elections driven by one State.
        Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

        Prayers.

        BoRG

        http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

        Comment


        • #5
          https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartandhp

          'The chairwoman of the Federal Election Commission pushed back against President Donald Trump's unsubstantiated claim of voter fraud in 2016, saying that there is no evidence of fraud and statements like that are "damaging to our democracy."'

          'Ellen Weintraub, who is a Democrat, said Monday that no one has found any evidence of "rampant voter fraud," despite assertions that that effect from Trump.'

          '“There is no evidence of rampant voter fraud in 2016 or really in any previous election,” Weintraub said in an interview with CNN.'

          '“People have studied this. Academics have studied this. Lawyers have studied this. The government has studied this. Democrats have studied this. Republicans have studied this,” she continued. “And no one can find any evidence of rampant voter fraud either historically or particularly in the 2016 elections.”'

          'Citing Trump's remarks, Weintraub
          sent a letter to the president on Friday
          asking him for evidence to substantiate his claims of voter fraud in New Hampshire. When asked Monday whether the White House has been responsive to her letter, the FEC chairwoman said no.'
          We are not now that strength which in old days
          Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
          Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
          To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

          Comment


          • #6
            The FEC Chair is claiming something Trump never said. He didn't say "rampant."

            rampant

            [ˈrampənt]




            ADJECTIVE




            He did say substantial. That means more than occasional or infrequent. That is clearly the case. Voter fraud happens and it often goes un- or under-checked.

            It doesn't help that the Democrats fight tooth and nail to keep any sort of checks on voter fraud from occurring and frequently make claims that voter fraud doesn't even happen. When voter fraud is pointed out to them they change their tune to "Well, it isn't widespread" or "It's very rare."


            As for studying it... Only Progressive and Democrat friendly sites claim it never happens, isn't a problem, and basically is something best ignored....

            https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/voter-fraud

            https://www.factcheck.org/2016/10/tr...-fraud-claims/

            Because everybody else says it does happen, and even point out how it could potentially be rampant.

            https://cis.org/Huennekens/Aliens-and-Voter-Fraud

            https://thefederalist.com/2016/10/13...l-heres-proof/

            https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud

            https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...re-its-all-to/

            While an election has to be close for fraud to really play a role, close elections do happen. When they do, I'd say hold a new election, or massively increase the scrutiny of ballots cast to weed out the fraud. If a candidate is winning by a good margin, no, there's not much likelihood fraud will make a difference.

            For example, I'd hold up Al Franken's election to the Senate as a clear example of election fraud influencing the outcome. Even much of the MSM had doubts that he was fairly and cleanly elected.

            https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs...gh-voter-fraud

            https://www.forbes.com/sites/billfre.../#5d7076514998

            https://www.americanexperiment.org/2...ote-obamacare/

            https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/what...ction-tells-us

            So, yes fraud is serious and can change election results. It needs to be addressed, and the FEC Chairwoman is dead, flat, wrong in asserting that voter fraud is a non-issue as she implies it to be.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
              (…)
              We should have strong voter ID laws. We should limit mail-in balloting and make people vote in person after presenting proper ID. We should outlaw ballot harvesting. We should have a national system that tracks where people are registered to vote by state (not their exact address) and would prevent registration in more than one state.

              We should have a system that periodically requires people to reregister or perform other functions to maintain their registration. There should be a system that requires upon death of a person the registration system be notified and the person removed from voting roles.

              What possible reason is there for not having all that ?
              Choice and consequence - certainly it is possible, we have all those things….

              Granted it is a bit easier to organize for a 11 million nation state compared to a 300+ million one, but surely not beyond your capabilities.

              We should outlaw ballot harvesting.
              Not sure about that, what is it ?
              High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.
              Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Co.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

                Choice and consequence - certainly it is possible, we have all those things….

                Granted it is a bit easier to organize for a 11 million nation state compared to a 300+ million one, but surely not beyond your capabilities.



                Not sure about that, what is it ?
                Ballot harvesting is when a political party operative comes to your residence and collects your mail-in ballot and then along with doing this for entire neighborhoods, old folk's homes, that sort of thing, turns in all the ballots collected at one time. The issues with this are:

                The operative collects unfilled out ballots, fills them out as they like, then turns them in.
                The operative "helps" people like the old who are mentally infirm (Alzheimer's, just not all that sharp any more, etc.) fill out their ballots when collecting them.
                The operative "checks" the ballots and disposes of ones that voted in the "wrong" manner.
                The operative only collects ballots favorable to their own party ignoring the other party.

                Here it is in action in California where a law was passed to allow it:





                It's just a scheme to allow massive voter fraud. Out of sight, out of mind so-to-speak.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                  There should be strong voter ID laws.

                  Can anyone think of a single negative issue with requiring people to have ID to vote?
                  yep if you don't have an id you cant vote. So your forcing a tax on someone to use a right.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by craven View Post

                    yep if you don't have an id you cant vote. So your forcing a tax on someone to use a right.
                    How does anyone function in American society without having some sort of personal identification on them?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                      How does anyone function in American society without having some sort of personal identification on them?
                      Not saying it is easy but it is possible.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by craven View Post

                        Not saying it is easy but it is possible.
                        No, it's not except maybe if you're homeless and deliberately stay that way. Other than occasional day labor few if any employers pay in cash. They give you a paycheck or direct deposit these days. That's as much to CYA themselves as it is for any other reason.
                        To even get a library card you need ID.
                        Hell, when I take a load to the dump I have to show ID that I'm a resident of the city the dump is in.

                        It is nearly impossible, if not impossible to function in modern society without an ID.

                        Even Native Americans get issued ID cards to prove they're actual tribal members...





                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                          Ballot harvesting is when a political party operative comes to your residence and collects your mail-in ballot and then along with doing this for entire neighborhoods, old folk's homes, that sort of thing, turns in all the ballots collected at one time. The issues with this are:

                          The operative collects unfilled out ballots, fills them out as they like, then turns them in.
                          The operative "helps" people like the old who are mentally infirm (Alzheimer's, just not all that sharp any more, etc.) fill out their ballots when collecting them.
                          The operative "checks" the ballots and disposes of ones that voted in the "wrong" manner.
                          The operative only collects ballots favorable to their own party ignoring the other party.

                          Here it is in action in California where a law was passed to allow it:

                          (…)

                          It's just a scheme to allow massive voter fraud. Out of sight, out of mind so-to-speak.
                          Yes, that too would be illegal here.

                          The vote is personal and secret and the president of each voting bureau is sworn in to uphold that principle.

                          Only way to cast a vote for someone else is to obtain a written, legal, authorization, and even then you have to present it, along with ID of said person.

                          Obviously it would not impossible for a *candidate* (or "operative") to collect a large number of those, but he would still have to cast each vote in turn, in the applicable voting bureau, and in doing so would probably attract attention quickly.

                          Edit, a quick search reveals that in the election of 2018, in Brussels, someone tried just that, with predictable results, he applied first for 30 written authorizations, then for 50 and is now under investigation for attempted election fraud.

                          https://www.bruzz.be/brussel-kiest-s...arbeek-2018-09

                          Although you sometimes see individual family members accompanying the elderly into the voting booth to help them make sense of the sometimes rather elaborate voting ballots, or electronic voting systems, strictly speaking even that is illegal.



                          Last edited by Snowygerry; 21 Aug 19, 03:34.
                          High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.
                          Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Co.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                            No, it's not except maybe if you're homeless and deliberately stay that way. Other than occasional day labor few if any employers pay in cash. They give you a paycheck or direct deposit these days. That's as much to CYA themselves as it is for any other reason.
                            To even get a library card you need ID.
                            Hell, when I take a load to the dump I have to show ID that I'm a resident of the city the dump is in.

                            It is nearly impossible, if not impossible to function in modern society without an ID.

                            Even Native Americans get issued ID cards to prove they're actual tribal members...




                            so so wrong haven't thought this through have ya. Those things are set up say 10 years ago. lose id never replace because you have no need to.. ie can live without id. Hell if you memorize the numbers you actually never need to actually have the actual id. I don't need an id for anything currently hell the first time I pulled out my id in years was because I needed to renew my license.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by craven View Post

                              so so wrong haven't thought this through have ya. Those things are set up say 10 years ago. lose id never replace because you have no need to.. ie can live without id. Hell if you memorize the numbers you actually never need to actually have the actual id. I don't need an id for anything currently hell the first time I pulled out my id in years was because I needed to renew my license.
                              Guess you haven't flown lately. I have to show mine every time I go to shop at the commissary. I have a state issued voter identification card too. That's issued free when you register to vote, the one time you absolutely have to show ID. After that, if you have your voter card, that's enough.

                              So, I have thought this through. Most people have multiple ID's in various forms. Almost anyone, if not everyone, can produce positive identification of who they are. There is absolutely not one valid argument that you should be able to just walk into a polling place and get a ballot without proving who you are.

                              Comment

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