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  • #91
    Originally posted by Nichols View Post

    Trump never said that. The MSM has been pushing that lie since the beginning. He clearly condemned the right and left wing nuts that fought against each other.
    I posted the transcript from the white house gov.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings...nfrastructure/

    Q Who are the good people?

    Q Sir, I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly? I just don’t understand what you were saying.

    THE PRESIDENT: No, no. There were people in that rally — and I looked the night before — if you look, there were people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee.
    I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day it looked like they had some rough, bad people — neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them.


    Also, just to correct something you said about the supposedly lack of permit for the counter-protesters

    From the official report:


    https://www.huntonak.com/images/cont...iant-ready.pdf

    Page 90

    On July 13, UVA professor Walt Heinecke filed a special events permit request to the City to use Justice and McGuffey Parks on August 12. The request described the event as an effort “to allow citizens of Charlottesville the ability to lawfully assemble and engage in free speech about unity and love and justice.” He requested use of the two parks from 8:00 a.m. until 8:00 p.m. and estimated that 75 to 100 participants would attend. The hand-drawn diagrams in Heneicke’s application showed that both parks would house “medic tents.”

    240 Professor Heinecke refused to speak with us, but we were able to glean information about his plans for August 12 from e-mails he sent to media outlets that then were forwarded to various City officials. In his view, police had needlessly declared an unlawful assembly on July 8, and the speed with which officers did so left protesters “no place to go that allowed for lawful assembly.” So he sought to reserve space at Justice and McGuffey Parks “to allow assembly for citizens protesting the white supremacist groups that will occupy Emancipation Park.” He did so for the sake of “the safety and security of citizens of Charlottesville.”


    241 After receiving Heinecke’s request, Special Events Coordinator Michelle Christian immediately forwarded the application to the special events committee as well as the command staff at CPD. Captain Wendy Lewis suggested to the other police leadership that CPD recommend the denial of the application. She was concerned that police would need the parks for staging equipment and support response on August 12. Captain Victor Mitchell, the incident commander for CPD’s August 12 operations, disagreed. He did not object to the granting of the permit so long as there was no promise of security from CPD

    Christian e-mailed Heinecke on July 31 to inform him his request had been approved as a demonstration. Heinecke responded by asking whether he could meet with her and a representative of the police department to speak about logistical and security concerns. The CPD command staff conferred and responded that there were no available police assets to provide security at either park on August 12. Nevertheless, Heinecke met with Christian and Captain Lewis in advance of August 12, and it became clear that the true focus of the Justice and McGuffey events was to use the parks as staging areas for counter-protesters. Heinecke discussed the possibility of hiring private security, and Captain Lewis provided him with her contact information in case he needed direct contact with CPD on August 12.

    Our review of e-mails suggests that Chief Thomas advised Heinecke to update CPD if he learned of a “credible threat” that might require a shift in law enforcement resources. Late in the evening on August 11, Heinecke sent an e-mail to Chief Thomas with a narrative of the events at the Rotunda. His email concluded, “If this is a sign of things to come, the white supremacists will be violent tomorrow. I want police protection at McGuffey and Justice Parks.” Late that evening, Thomas responded to Heinecke that CPD would bring additional officers “to monitor McGuffey and Justice.”242


    The right-wing fake media tried to spin the case that not all groups got a permit to the counter-protesters in general had no permit.
    Last edited by pamak; 22 Aug 19, 16:53.
    My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

    Comment


    • #92
      Heinecke's permit is a canard. The counter protest didn't stay in Justice and McGuffey parks. It spilled into the streets and went looking for a confrontation. The spin is that the counter protests a permit. One guy, for one group, that didn't even really meet.

      So, using this permit is nothing but a fig leaf trying to excuse the Left for an illegal counter-protest.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
        Heinecke's permit is a canard. The counter protest didn't stay in Justice and McGuffey parks. It spilled into the streets and went looking for a confrontation. The spin is that the counter protests a permit. One guy, for one group, that didn't even really meet.

        So, using this permit is nothing but a fig leaf trying to excuse the Left for an illegal counter-protest.
        The protestor's permit was the same.

        And the report shows how police organization created confusion among both sides, including the roads that each side can use to move towards their destination.

        You just make comments without having read the report.

        Ohh, and it is clear that Trump decided to LIE about the demonstration of the neonazi the previous night which did not have a permit.
        My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by pamak View Post

          I posted the transcript from the white house gov.

          https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings...nfrastructure/

          Q Who are the good people?

          Q Sir, I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly? I just don’t understand what you were saying.

          THE PRESIDENT: No, no. There were people in that rally — and I looked the night before — if you look, there were people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day it looked like they had some rough, bad people — neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them.
          What was quoted above was not part of the original press conference when he used the "very fine people on both sides" This is the lie that the MSM has been playing on the public:

          Just last week I exposed this falsehood, yet again, when CNN contributor Keith Boykin falsely stated, “When violent people were marching with tiki torches in Charlottesville, the president said they were ‘very fine people.’” When I objected and detailed that Trump’s “fine people on both sides” observation clearly related to those on both sides of the Confederate monument debate, and specifically excluded the violent supremacists, anchor Erin Burnett interjected, “He [Trump] didn’t say it was on the monument debate at all. No, they didn’t even try to use that defense. It’s a good one, but no one’s even tried to use it, so you just used it now.”

          Here's what Trump said:

          “Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.”

          After another question at that press conference, Trump became even more explicit:

          “I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”

          https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...of_139815.html


          Originally posted by pamak View Post
          Also, just to correct something you said about the lack of permit of the counter-protesters had:
          Remember, we were specifically talking about the left and right wing nuts. ANTIFA did not have a permit.

          Originally posted by pamak View Post
          The right-wing fake media tried to spin the case that not all groups got a permit to the counter-protesters in general had no permit.
          ANTIFA did not get a permit, there was no spin about that. The MSM spun the 'very fine people on both sides' Does anyone beleive that Trump thought there was very fine people in ANTIFA????

          "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Nichols View Post

            What was quoted above was not part of the original press conference when he used the "very fine people on both sides" This is the lie that the MSM has been playing on the public:

            Just last week I exposed this falsehood, yet again, when CNN contributor Keith Boykin falsely stated, “When violent people were marching with tiki torches in Charlottesville, the president said they were ‘very fine people.’” When I objected and detailed that Trump’s “fine people on both sides” observation clearly related to those on both sides of the Confederate monument debate, and specifically excluded the violent supremacists, anchor Erin Burnett interjected, “He [Trump] didn’t say it was on the monument debate at all. No, they didn’t even try to use that defense. It’s a good one, but no one’s even tried to use it, so you just used it now.”

            Here's what Trump said:

            “Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.”

            After another question at that press conference, Trump became even more explicit:

            “I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”

            https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...of_139815.html




            Remember, we were specifically talking about the left and right wing nuts. ANTIFA did not have a permit.



            ANTIFA did not get a permit, there was no spin about that. The MSM spun the 'very fine people on both sides' Does anyone beleive that Trump thought there was very fine people in ANTIFA????
            What I quoted from Trump verifies what I , and most media, said!

            He LIED that the demonstration the previous night was peaceful when it was more like trespassing or disturbance of peace since there was no permit.

            He tried to make the claim that there were some good people among the neonazi and white supremacists who were chanting "Jews will not replace us" and who could not hear or see the neonazi setting of the lit torch march. Just because he called them "fine people" in a different press conference does not change a thing

            Remember, that we are talking about the facts and not about what YOU want to talk:

            In Trump's mind he can equate neonazi with any group because neonazi have some "fine people" too. A scum can say the same thing about the Nazi because of the presence of people like Schindler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Schindler

            Finally, it is obvious that Trump did not initially condemn neonazi. He did it AFTER a few days when even GOP senators were criticizing him.
            My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by pamak View Post
              Remember, that we are talking about the facts and not about what YOU want to talk:
              My posts and links have been factual.

              The MSM has been pushing the 'very fine people' twist for some time now. Take note that the original remark "very fine people on both sides" was shortened to 'very fine people' and linked to the right wing nuts. Probably because if the MSM kept the original remark......they would be implying that Trump thought there was very fine people in ANTIFA.

              He clearly condemned the right wing nuts....yet the MSM is still pushing the lie.
              "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                You're manifesting two problems here: 1) you don't know history; 2) you're overlooking fundamental human nature.

                Re the 1st issue: the context wherein legal restrictions against Jews was raised was mid-20th century Europe and earlier, going back to the Middle Ages. With but a handful of exceptions, Jews held virtually no positions of prestige,
                In the 20th century this is absolutely not true.

                authority, or power. European Jews cold no more abuse power than could African-Americans in the South during Jim Crow. They couldn't abuse what they never had.

                Re the 2nd issue: you, me, the guy next door -- we all endeavor to take advantage of what conditions we can. We're all looking to game the system, get ahead of the other guy, at least a little. Blow a red light, cheat on your taxes, shoplift that cool shirt from Macy's, humiliate your subordinates at work, slap your wife around -- we've all done it. Blacks and whites, Jews and Goyim, men and women -- fcking cats and dogs -- ain't a one of us are above trying to get over, trying to sucker our neighbor, or trying to sooth our egos by making someone else miserable. The Irish did it in Five Points and Southie, African-Americans have done it in Oakland and Newark, Italians, Russians, Chines, Indians, etc, etc, etc, all in their little enclaves. If Jews didn't try to do that kind of thing, then they wouldn't be Homo sapiens.


                I see that you're omitting mention of black imperialism: Zulu, Kush, Carthage, Songhai. Did you think that their empires were built on something other than crass politicking and military muscle?
                Yes, I omitted things that pre-date the time period I was discussing. Black issues of recent time are different. We are all flawed in different ways.


                So you're admitting that Jews have done no more and no less than any other people? They've been victims and victimizers, they've been heroes and goats, they've been saints and sinners . . . . Like 'most everyone else. So why did you expend so much time and effort vilifying Jews as exceptionally wicked, recycling tropes last used by the armband and jackboot crowd?
                It is something I discussed once or twice and you continued to reproduce throughout countless threads. It's not something I expend a lot of energy on. If I bring up slavery, is that automatically an attempt to paint whites as wicked? Or is it just acknowledging historical fact? Do I have to ignore certain aspects of history to not be viewed as a racist? What's important is that we don't generalize. Any issues I have with Israel, I do not generalize across the entire Jewish population. I see no issue in treating everyone the same.
                "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                - Benjamin Franklin

                The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                  My posts and links have been factual.

                  The MSM has been pushing the 'very fine people' twist for some time now. Take note that the original remark "very fine people on both sides" was shortened to 'very fine people' and linked to the right wing nuts. Probably because if the MSM kept the original remark......they would be implying that Trump thought there was very fine people in ANTIFA.

                  He clearly condemned the right wing nuts....yet the MSM is still pushing the lie.
                  I SAID THAT

                  Originally posted by pamak View Post
                  The fact is that Trump lied in front on the nation when he falsely claimed that the right-wing nuts in the previous night marched peacefully together with some "fine people.
                  "

                  YOU SAID

                  Originally posted by Nichols
                  Trump never said that.


                  I PROVED THAT HE SAID IT. It is IRRELEVANT if he called them "good people" in the press conference I cited while he called them "fine people" in another conference. The meaning and attempted claim is identical. I also PROVED that the lit torch parade did NOT have a permit and Trump lied by omission!

                  I also SHOWED that he did NOT condemn neonazi or white supremacists immediately after the murder (August 12), and he did it ONLY later after the backlash he received from everywhere, INCLUDING from GOP senators and from the MSM media!.

                  ON TOP of this, your links simply show that Trump as usual was willing to do double talk (as he does now with the gun regulations) and condemn neonazi and white supremacists in some instances while he was trying to defend their side by arguing that the protestors (WHO WERE NEONAZI and WHITE SUPREMACISTS)_ had some fine people too!


                  Any person who is so ambivalent in condemning the side which organized a neonazi lit torch parade is a scum!
                  Last edited by pamak; 22 Aug 19, 17:59.
                  My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Look who's back for 2020

                    There are good people on his side they are just confused.
                    We hunt the hunters

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by pamak View Post

                      The protestor's permit was the same.

                      And the report shows how police organization created confusion among both sides, including the roads that each side can use to move towards their destination.

                      You just make comments without having read the report.

                      Ohh, and it is clear that Trump decided to LIE about the demonstration of the neonazi the previous night which did not have a permit.
                      A, the Tu Quoque fallacy. Pot points out kettle.

                      The points I have been making are:

                      If the radical Right nutters had been allowed their protest and then left, nothing would have happened.
                      If the Leftists had held their protest as permitted, and then left, nothing would have happened.
                      It was the radical Leftists, like Antifa, that showed up, didn't bother with legal niceties just as they always don't, and went looking for a fight that caused most of what happened in Charlottesville.
                      Same thing in Portland last weekend.
                      Same thing last year when Trump came to Phoenix.

                      Antifa are the violent, lawless, rioters that start 90% of the $h!+ at these events. They can't let anyone else have their say in peace when it differs from their own views. They are the modern Sturm Abteilung.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by pamak View Post
                        Any person who is so ambivalent in condemning the side which organized a neonazi lit torch parade is a scum!
                        Trump clearly condemned the right wing nuts, so that makes him not a scum by the post quoted.

                        Thanks for clearing that up.
                        "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                          Look who's back for 2020

                          There are good people on his side they are just confused.
                          I just saw that some posters are missing which is a good sign for the quality of this site, but to tell you the truth, I am not planning to stay here long .
                          My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                            Trump clearly condemned the right wing nuts, so that makes him not scum. Thanks for clearing that up.
                            Cutting my post will not make the facts go away! As I said,

                            I also SHOWED that he did NOT condemn neonazi or white supremacists immediately after the murder (August 12), and he did it ONLY later after the backlash he received from everywhere, INCLUDING from GOP senators and from the MSM media!.

                            ON TOP of this, your links simply show that Trump as usual was willing to do double talk (as he does now with the gun regulations) and condemn neonazi and white supremacists in some instances while he was trying to defend their side by arguing that the protestors (WHO WERE NEONAZI and WHITE SUPREMACISTS)_ had some fine people too!




                            Thank you for clearing up that you are afraid of facing those facts

                            My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                              A, the Tu Quoque fallacy. Pot points out kettle.

                              The points I have been making are:

                              If the radical Right nutters had been allowed their protest and then left, nothing would have happened.
                              If the Leftists had held their protest as permitted, and then left, nothing would have happened.
                              It was the radical Leftists, like Antifa, that showed up, didn't bother with legal niceties just as they always don't, and went looking for a fight that caused most of what happened in Charlottesville.
                              Same thing in Portland last weekend.
                              Same thing last year when Trump came to Phoenix.

                              Antifa are the violent, lawless, rioters that start 90% of the $h!+ at these events. They can't let anyone else have their say in peace when it differs from their own views. They are the modern Sturm Abteilung.
                              The fallacy is on the right-wing side.

                              The point you used is nothing more that an excuse for apologists. The fact is that there is NOTHING that can excuse this murder.
                              The fact is that as I showed rallies without permits had been organized bu the right-wing nuts too and the person who asked for the permit of the "Unite the Right" rally had been arrested in the past as I posted.

                              The fact is that the counterprotesters HAD a permit in this case

                              The fact is that the white supremacists have been more lethal in the most recent years and even the FBI Director now, admits that most cases of domestic terrorism includes members linked to some branch of white supremacy.

                              https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ests-this-year
                              FBI's Wray says most domestic terrorism arrests this year involve white supremacy
                              My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by pamak View Post

                                Thank you for clearing up that you are afraid of facing those facts
                                Actually I posted and referenced facts. Thanks for clearly showing that Trump isn't "a scum" being that he condemned the right wing nuts.
                                "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                                Comment

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