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  • #16
    Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post

    One of the tweets is from a verified German newspaper.
    The "newspaper" you refer to is Neues Deutschland Sozialistische Tageszeitung (New Germany Socialist Daily). It is a far Left, radical newspaper of the Socialist Unity Party of Germany. This is the party that back when there was an East Germany ran the country. It takes a hard Marxist-Leninist stance on politics.

    Of course, such a paper would support the Anarchists and Communists of Antifa. It only confirms what I stated earlier.

    Oh, CNN's story is crap because they didn't even bother to do basic homework on the sources...

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

      Why should anyone be tolerant of Anarchists and Communists?
      If you could actually answer my question, I could tell you why. If we can't establish whether or not Nazism is tolerable, then we cannot accurately judge antifa's response to it.

      "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
      - Benjamin Franklin

      The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post

        If you could actually answer my question, I could tell you why. If we can't establish whether or not Nazism is tolerable, then we cannot accurately judge antifa's response to it.
        We shouldn't tolerate actual Nazis. But, as I point out, we shouldn't tolerate Anarchists and Communists either given that the later two have killed somewhere around twenty times what the Nazis did, not to mention messed up the lives and societies of dozens of nations for decades.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

          The "newspaper" you refer to is Neues Deutschland Sozialistische Tageszeitung (New Germany Socialist Daily). It is a far Left, radical newspaper of the Socialist Unity Party of Germany. This is the party that back when there was an East Germany ran the country. It takes a hard Marxist-Leninist stance on politics.

          Of course, such a paper would support the Anarchists and Communists of Antifa. It only confirms what I stated earlier.

          Oh, CNN's story is crap because they didn't even bother to do basic homework on the sources...
          It doesn't back what you said. There's no indication that any of those tweets were from antifa members. I don't care about their political leaning, it doesn't change the fact that they all brought up valid points. Political affiliation does not invalidate the historical truth they brought to the discussion.

          Our forefathers were radical, that's why we're free.
          "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
          - Benjamin Franklin

          The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

            We shouldn't tolerate actual Nazis.
            If we agree that nazis shouldn't be tolerated, then how can antifa be criticized for being intolerant of Nazis. This would be entirely different if antifas target was anyone else. But, they show up where Nazis show up and they kick their ass. Good on them.

            "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
            - Benjamin Franklin

            The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post

              If we agree that nazis shouldn't be tolerated, then how can antifa be criticized for being intolerant of Nazis. This would be entirely different if antifas target was anyone else. But, they show up where Nazis show up and they kick their ass. Good on them.
              They can't. But, they can be criticized for their own politics, the fact that they just want the Nazis and Nationalists gone so they can impose their own dictatorship of virtue based on repulsive Communist ideas that would be worse than having the Nazis or Nationalists running things.
              I see no virtue in applauding one bunch of vile thugs beating up another bunch of vile thugs. The only way one can truly applaud Antifa for their actions is to be complicit in accepting their politics which are, if history is any indication, far, far worse than whatever the Nazis or Nationalists would come up with.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post

                It doesn't back what you said. There's no indication that any of those tweets were from antifa members. I don't care about their political leaning, it doesn't change the fact that they all brought up valid points. Political affiliation does not invalidate the historical truth they brought to the discussion.

                Our forefathers were radical, that's why we're free.
                There's no indication they're not either. But, given the citation of a radical Leftist German newspaper-- in part obfuscated by a lie of omission (CNN left off the part where it's a Socialist rag)-- there's good reason to believe that the rest of the story is equally biased and therefore just a bad case of Yellow Journalism.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Thought experiment here:

                  Let's assume that Antifa is able to eradicate, defeat, whatever their enemies the alt-Right, Neo-Nazis, etc. These groups are done, finished, and gone. Further, now that Antifa has no further need to exist, the majority of the public says so and rejects out-of-hand Antifa's own political positions. Something like Thank you very much for ridding society of Fascists, but now that you have go home and stop protesting. You did a good job. Oh, no, we're not voting in a radical Leftist government...

                  What would Antifa's reaction / response to that be?

                  I'd say Antifa would react badly and violently to being rejected as the new political power. They'd become the Fascists they sought to destroy.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                    Thought experiment here:

                    Let's assume that Antifa is able to eradicate, defeat, whatever their enemies the alt-Right, Neo-Nazis, etc. These groups are done, finished, and gone. Further, now that Antifa has no further need to exist, the majority of the public says so and rejects out-of-hand Antifa's own political positions. Something like Thank you very much for ridding society of Fascists, but now that you have go home and stop protesting. You did a good job. Oh, no, we're not voting in a radical Leftist government...

                    What would Antifa's reaction / response to that be?

                    I'd say Antifa would react badly and violently to being rejected as the new political power. They'd become the Fascists they sought to destroy.
                    The members of antifa weren't born in 2016. So again, history would indicate that their response would be the same as it was prior to the existence of a far right white nationalist movement.
                    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                    - Benjamin Franklin

                    The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      The Proud Boys showed up recently (past few days) in Portland (despite being warned by the city that they would not be tolerated because of their "evil fascistic" ways...) Well they came they marched around a bit and went home/went to the bar...

                      Antifa also showed up and started beating anyone they could find that fit their views of a Nazi... hardly a peep on the news about that bit, sure they did not beat many but they harassed and attacked a fair number of people, a number of which where just minding their own dam business.

                      So who is the real problem here?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Thought experiment. If gun rights were taken away and conservatives began resorting to violence, as they promised. 1. Would other conservatives blame those going to extreme measures to defend their rights. Or, would they blame the people who caused them to resort to violence in the first place?

                        2. Would the people criticizing antifa also be worried about how conservatives would continue to act once gun rights are restored?
                        "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                        - Benjamin Franklin

                        The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Nebfer View Post
                          The Proud Boys showed up recently (past few days) in Portland (despite being warned by the city that they would not be tolerated because of their "evil fascistic" ways...) Well they came they marched around a bit and went home/went to the bar...

                          Antifa also showed up and started beating anyone they could find that fit their views of a Nazi... hardly a peep on the news about that bit, sure they did not beat many but they harassed and attacked a fair number of people, a number of which where just minding their own dam business.

                          So who is the real problem here?
                          Again we have an argument that centers around nazi sympathy. Who's the real problem? Easily the people who believe in white supremacy, want an ethnostate, want to remove all people of color. As illustrated in the posted tweets, the German's know best what happens when you allow such people to go uncontested. Bravo to antifa for not allowing history to repeat itself.
                          "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                          - Benjamin Franklin

                          The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post

                            The members of antifa weren't born in 2016. So again, history would indicate that their response would be the same as it was prior to the existence of a far right white nationalist movement.
                            And, that would be violent revolution to gain a communist dictatorship...









                            The cure is worse than the disease. Antifa are radical Leftist Communist thugs and are fighting radical Rightist Fascist thugs. Cheering for either set of thugs is insane.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                              The cure is worse than the disease. Antifa are radical Leftist Communist thugs and are fighting radical Rightist Fascist thugs. Cheering for either set of thugs is insane.
                              Sure, as a white person it's easy for you to say that. No matter what power the right wing raises to, they'll never pose a threat to you. Not everyone has that same privilege.
                              "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                              - Benjamin Franklin

                              The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                                Thought experiment. If gun rights were taken away and conservatives began resorting to violence, as they promised. 1. Would other conservatives blame those going to extreme measures to defend their rights. Or, would they blame the people who caused them to resort to violence in the first place?

                                2. Would the people criticizing antifa also be worried about how conservatives would continue to act once gun rights are restored?
                                A poorly constructed thought experiment. In part 1, you force a conclusion rather than give a set of conditions and let the reader draw conclusions.
                                To what extent are "gun rights" taken away? Completely? Banning certain weapons like "assault rifles?"
                                If the radical Right started open warfare over this, yes, they would be criticized by mainstream Conservatives. As it is, mainstream Conservatives criticize the radical Right. Nobody particularly likes Neo-Nazis and racists on the radical Right.

                                As for part 2, again poorly constructed. The best answer to that, given the odd wording and forced conclusion, would be Yes, people would worry about both groups.

                                Are radical Leftists with guns any more or less concerning than radical Rightists with guns?







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