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  • Mass Shootings - Mental Illness?

    We have a problem! The first step in fixing a problem is admitting that we have one. In my opinion, it is truly disgusting that we have so little concern for the safety of our citizens when it comes to gun violence. I am sick of people saying that they have the victims and their families in mind after these events happen, but do nothing. We have a lot of excuses that come out after these events and the most common is ‘mental illness’. We love to blame this problem for cause of most of these shootings.
    Well, Canada, Australia, the UK, Germany, France, Holland, etc. have millions of people that suffer from mental illness too. Why do they not have these events happening? Come on, pull your heads out of the sand. This is a complete bs excuse! This gun violence insanity must be dealt with. Enough of the ‘thoughts and prayers’ only crap.
    As you can see, I’m not saying that guns are bad. People are bad. The problem is, we have guns and accessories that have NO place in the general public’s hand. It’s time for things to change. Period.
    "War is hell, but actual combat is a motherf#cker"
    - Col. David Hackworth

  • #2
    Yes, you can always send your, "Thoughts and Prayers," to the gun-nuts who have to give up their penis substitutes.
    Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

    Comment


    • #3
      First off, mass murder is mass murder whether it's done with a gun, a knife, a vehicle, or a bomb. Thinking that the problem is firearms is idiotic. It clearly isn't. This isn't about "gun violence." It's about mass murder by mostly crazy people.
      What we need to do is get a grip on what kind of crazy makes it happen.

      For example, the Las Vegas shooter doesn't fit any particular category. Here's a guy with no record, no known mental illness, and who obviously put a ton of effort into setting up his mass murder choices. He's the sort of guy no gun law, however onerous, is going to stop.

      Look at the Philadelphia situation with that drug bust. The shooter was a repeat felon that had possession of multiple firearms, was committing numerous felonies-- including possession of firearms. Did all the laws on the books stop him from shooting six cops?

      Arguing that the problem is guns is just idiotic. The problem is criminals and crazy people.

      Comment


      • #4
        The problem is cultural.

        Otherwise we should start looking for the cause for this raging epidemic of US mental illness.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
          The problem is cultural.

          Otherwise we should start looking for the cause for this raging epidemic of US mental illness.

          Actually, it should be obvious. In the past, for all of human history, males have been in surplus to the needs of the population. This was cured in one of several ways:

          1. War. Ship men off to war and they are eliminated by casualties.
          2. The need for cheap manual labor. Whether slave or free, men were impressed at minimum wages to do manual labor be it building the pyramids or digging ditches.
          3. Colonization / emigration. Send them off to distant lands and let them try and tame them.

          Today none of those outlets are available in the Western World. We're not having wars requiring mass armies. Mechanization and computerization has eliminated most of the need for cheap manual labor. The world no longer needs exploring or colonization.
          Topping all that off, is the Progressive Leftist, Feminist movement that has stripped men of their essential roles in society such as being the wage earner and provider. Now, more capable and educated women do that for themselves. The non-capable get placed on welfare and become wards of the government. Low ability men become homeless bums.

          One rung above that is the male that has little chance of gaining truly meaningful employment, lacks the capacity for gaining a higher education, and is only where he is because of heredity. That is, the male that lives in his parent's basement and isn't going anywhere fast. Green Day has it about right



          or maybe...





          or...


          The Progressive Left and Feminist movement has waged a social war on boys and men. It's wrecked Western society.

          Comment


          • #6
            If you are saying it is the fault of the mentally ill person, how can you also say that The “general public” shouldn’t have guns either?
            The “general public” isn’t the problem.

            Are there any other rights that we should withdraw from the “general public” even though they aren’t abusing them?

            Exactly how do you define a gun that has “NO place in the general public’s hands”?

            Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

            Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

            Comment


            • #7
              Nearly every lone wolf mass shooter has been found to have been taking, or prescribed powerful behavioral controlling drugs. Thanks to Hipaa Laws, they often have no record of their mental instability showing up in the mandated background check when purchasing a firearm.
              https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-profes...acy/index.html

              The latest shooting in Dayton, Ohio, happened to be on several drugs including a behavioral controlling medication as well as alcohol, which by itself, can induce violent behavior in some individuals.
              https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ystem-n1042906

              FDA Reports Also Link Psychiatric Medication to Homicidal Tendencies

              It would appear, then, that most individuals who are prescribed psychiatric medications have never been found, through objective medical testing, to have abnormal brain chemistry or function. But, according to Hyman and Nestler, chronic use of psychiatric medications, far from normalizing brain function, causes the brain to operate abnormally. They suggest that these changes are responsible for the drugs’ therapeutic effects. But there is evidence that those changes may also explain the acts of violence that are, in so many cases, associated with psychiatric medications.

              In 2010, Thomas Moore, a senior scientist at the Institute for Safe Medical Practice (ISMP) and Joseph Glenmullen, a Clinical Instructor in Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School and author of two books on antidepressants, published a study on prescription medication-induced violence in PLoS One.

              Moore and Glenmullen extracted serious adverse event reports from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Adverse Event Reporting System, searching for any drugs with 200 or more case reports received from 2004 through September 2009. They selected any reports that indicated homicide, homicidal ideation, physical assault, physical abuse or violence-related symptoms and then used mathematical and statistical methods to identify drugs that were significantly more associated with those reports compared to other drugs.

              Out of 484 medications they evaluated, 31 (6%) were significantly more associated with violence. Those 31 drugs accounted for nearly 80% of the violence case reports (384 homicides, 404 physical assaults, 27 physical abuse reports, 896 homicidal ideation reports, 223 cases described as violence-related symptoms). All but seven of the drugs were psychiatric drugs.
              https://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/medic...uced-violence/
              “Breaking News,”

              “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

              Comment


              • #8
                Actually, if one wanted to do something radical about the US gun situation, and the gun culture supporting it, it would be to federally mandate all US citizens to own a military grade firearm. Just make it mandatory, including some ambitious fire-arms training at age 18, and then the delivery of a gun and box of ammo. The numbers for privately owned guns in the US are already such that in practical terms it wouldn't mean any reduction. It certainly would conform to any constitutional amendment anyone might like to stand on. And it would make all US citizens stake-holders in the situation how to live with firearms as a society. And it would allow a different kind of footing for discussing the role of government in the regulation of public access to firearms.

                The Swiss can manage a version of that, with a fraction of the US carnage.

                As it is the the only apparent sphere of activity that has completely free access to shape the US gun culture is the profit-motive of rank commercialization. The end result is pretty obvious. The US some fifty years ago adopted models for society that turned education, healthcare and private gun-ownership effectively into profit-driven business opportunities, and "vestigia terrent". (It's not even opaque. It's why anyone looking in at the US situation has to conclude that it is now perverse, in each of those spheres.)

                The loner problem is a problem everywhere. You can't stop a dedicated lone wolf anywhere, viz Breivik in Norway, who was so solipsistic he managed to self-radicalize entirely by his lonesome in front of a computer screen, without even forming part of an actual on-line community. Factor for size and the US could throw up 60 Breiviks for parity. But then again, the US in 2018 alone managed 323 mass shooting, so that's actually a factor of 5:1 in a single year.

                When someone like Breivik comes along in Norway, he was and is a total aberration in relation to Norwegian conditions, highlighting the "lies, damned lies, and statistics" problem. His 75 people killing spree, given the small size of the Norwegian population, means that when calculating averages in international comparison, even if adopting say a 10-year intervals, the Norwegian figures get bent out of all actually representative shape. Because when comparing national statistics like that, a single Norwegian become worth 60+ Americans. Which means it's these kinds of comparisons can be used to try to show that "it's not so bad in the US", because it takes all of 5000+ dead Americans to arrive at a figure comparable to Breiviks 75 Norwegian fatalities.

                The US has literally hundreds of mass shootings/year. Norway had one in 2011, but a doozy. As a factor of how one can play with the numbers, that single event can be used to "prove" that the US "isn't so bad", and allow further inaction as the corpses pile up.

                And that acceptance certainly has nothing to do with the mental status of any actual or would be shooter, but has everything to do with US cultural preferences.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
                  Actually, if one wanted to do something radical about the US gun situation, and the gun culture supporting it, it would be to federally mandate all US citizens to own a military grade firearm. Just make it mandatory, including some ambitious fire-arms training at age 18, and then the delivery of a gun and box of ammo. The numbers for privately owned guns in the US are already such that in practical terms it wouldn't mean any reduction. It certainly would conform to any constitutional amendment anyone might like to stand on. And it would make all US citizens stake-holders in the situation how to live with firearms as a society. And it would allow a different kind of footing for discussing the role of government in the regulation of public access to firearms.

                  The Swiss can manage a version of that, with a fraction of the US carnage.
                  Not so - the Swiss have had the highest number of gun related deaths for the population size of W Europe. Pales into indignifigance with the US but still not managing. They are now severely restricting the conditions around holding of military fire ams
                  Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                  Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MarkV View Post

                    Not so - the Swiss have had the highest number of gun related deaths for the population size of W Europe. Pales into indignifigance with the US but still not managing. They are now severely restricting the conditions around holding of military fire ams
                    They had a mass shooting in Zug in 2011, 14 fatalities. One.

                    The Swiss rate of death from gun violence is 3/100 000. The US is 12/100 000. The Swiss rate is also lower than the Finnish rate of 3,6/100 000, and the Finns own even more guns than the Swiss.

                    The correlation between proliferation of guns in a society and deaths from them are not really in dispute. What's odd about the US is that it is still an outlier in the sheer blood letting. And the pattern of indiscriminate attacks by gunmen on people unknown to them. The "normal" situation (for a certain values of normal, and from a mainly European perspective) is that you kill people you actually previously know. The more prevalent guns are, the greater the tendency is for them to be used. But that in itself doesn't lead to mass shootings with multiple victims unknown to the shooter.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
                      They had a mass shooting in Zug in 2011, 14 fatalities. One.

                      The Swiss rate of death from gun violence is 3/100 000. The US is 12/100 000. The Swiss rate is also lower than the Finnish rate of 3,6/100 000, and the Finns own even more guns than the Swiss.

                      The correlation between proliferation of guns in a society and deaths from them are not really in dispute. What's odd about the US is that it is still an outlier in the sheer blood letting. And the pattern of indiscriminate attacks by gunmen on people unknown to them. The "normal" situation (for a certain values of normal, and from a mainly European perspective) is that you kill people you actually previously know. The more prevalent guns are, the greater the tendency is for them to be used. But that in itself doesn't lead to mass shootings with multiple victims unknown to the shooter.
                      What are you talking about?

                      If there really were a "correlation" between the number of guns in the US and murders, then please explain how our murder rate has been cut in half in the last 30 years while we have acquired more and more guns?
                      That should not be possible under your scenario.,

                      Most of our shootings take place where there is a high crime rate. If it really were the proliferation of guns, then murders should be more evenly distributed across the country. But they are not.

                      You said that there are "hundreds" of mass shootings in the US every year in a clear effort to misstate the evidence.
                      We do not have "hundreds" of shootings like we did in Dayton and El Paso. Fortunately, those are rare. But that doesn't stop people from pretending that gang related shootings when a criminal shoots several people are the same thing.
                      They are not.

                      Once again, if there is a "correlation" as you claim, why has our murder rate fallen so much while gun ownership has increased?


                      The US isn't in Europe. It borders a semi failed narco state on its southern border.
                      We have a huge drug problem here and lots of gangs involved in operating it.
                      Mexico is a far better state to compare the US to and guns are pretty much illegal there.
                      Despite this, mexico's murder rate is far higher than ours.

                      In the first six months of 2019, there were 17,608 murders in Mexico. In June alone, there were 3,080 homicides in the heavily gun-controlled nation, according to The Associated Press.
                      https://www.worldtribune.com/mexico-...rders-in-june/


                      It is almost as if the criminal element won't follow the law.
                      Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                      Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        High capacity magazines have no place in the hands of the general public in my mind. Neither do guns where a bump stock can virtually turn it into an automatic weapon. NOWHERE did I advocate banning all firearms. I do believe, just my opinion though, that certain guns don’t on our streets.
                        Tell me, at what age should we be sending our kids out the door with their own gun so they are not ‘soft targets’? What is appealing to you in turning our country into a place where everyone is armed to the teeth in order to feel safe when they go to movie or buy bread at the corner store? It’s ludicrous to believe that more guns and weapons like the AR-15 in the hands of more people will make us all safer.
                        "War is hell, but actual combat is a motherf#cker"
                        - Col. David Hackworth

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post

                          What are you talking about?

                          If there really were a "correlation" between the number of guns in the US and murders, then please explain how our murder rate has been cut in half in the last 30 years while we have acquired more and more guns?
                          That should not be possible under your scenario.,

                          Most of our shootings take place where there is a high crime rate. If it really were the proliferation of guns, then murders should be more evenly distributed across the country. But they are not.

                          You said that there are "hundreds" of mass shootings in the US every year in a clear effort to misstate the evidence.
                          We do not have "hundreds" of shootings like we did in Dayton and El Paso. Fortunately, those are rare. But that doesn't stop people from pretending that gang related shootings when a criminal shoots several people are the same thing.
                          They are not.

                          Once again, if there is a "correlation" as you claim, why has our murder rate fallen so much while gun ownership has increased?


                          The US isn't in Europe. It borders a semi failed narco state on its southern border.
                          We have a huge drug problem here and lots of gangs involved in operating it.
                          Mexico is a far better state to compare the US to and guns are pretty much illegal there.
                          Despite this, mexico's murder rate is far higher than ours.

                          In the first six months of 2019, there were 17,608 murders in Mexico. In June alone, there were 3,080 homicides in the heavily gun-controlled nation, according to The Associated Press.
                          https://www.worldtribune.com/mexico-...rders-in-june/


                          It is almost as if the criminal element won't follow the law.
                          Get it into your head. A good head at that. The only problem we have is GUNS, legal or illegal from bad guys or good guys. We seem to have an unnatural love for guns that other countries don't have. That love is an illness. Oh, take a look at sport shooters and you'll see that we are not the best shooters in the World just the only people that have this sickness of gun love. As said before I like guns and was once a gun owner, many moons ago, but never attached such love to them. Joined the Army and had nothing more to do with guns (more or less.) I know several people here in Germany that own guns of different sorts and sizes from the large cal African hunting rife or a Desert Eagle .50 cal pistol but none own one for protection. Ask the average German if they would like to own a gun and you get a look like are you fn crazy...what for. Our unnatural love for guns is the problem, among others

                          Using Mexico's murder rate isn't really doing the US a service now is it? Ludicrous, unless your satisfied with comparing us to a thrid world country. I'm not! How does it look compared to other G7 country's

                          Most of our shootings take place where there is a high crime rate. If it really were the proliferation of guns, then murders should be more evenly distributed across the country. But they are not.
                          But none of the mass killings in schools, clubs and concerts.
                          "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                          Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                          you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DeltaOne View Post
                            We have a problem! The first step in fixing a problem is admitting that we have one. In my opinion, it is truly disgusting that we have so little concern for the safety of our citizens when it comes to gun violence. I am sick of people saying that they have the victims and their families in mind after these events happen, but do nothing. We have a lot of excuses that come out after these events and the most common is ‘mental illness’. We love to blame this problem for cause of most of these shootings.
                            Well, Canada, Australia, the UK, Germany, France, Holland, etc. have millions of people that suffer from mental illness too. Why do they not have these events happening? Come on, pull your heads out of the sand. This is a complete bs excuse! This gun violence insanity must be dealt with. Enough of the ‘thoughts and prayers’ only crap.
                            As you can see, I’m not saying that guns are bad. People are bad. The problem is, we have guns and accessories that have NO place in the general public’s hand. It’s time for things to change. Period.
                            Great to see you posting here again...it's been a long time.
                            "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                            Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                            you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post


                              Actually, it should be obvious. In the past, for all of human history, males have been in surplus to the needs of the population. This was cured in one of several ways:

                              1. War. Ship men off to war and they are eliminated by casualties.
                              2. The need for cheap manual labor. Whether slave or free, men were impressed at minimum wages to do manual labor be it building the pyramids or digging ditches.
                              3. Colonization / emigration. Send them off to distant lands and let them try and tame them. . . . .
                              Young men need outlets for their . . . . energies. In Europe, they're rather fond of football







                              and riots in general.







                              Maybe that's what we need here in the US: organized bands of "ultras" terrorizing whole cities on a weekly basis. Maybe we can pass it along to our children.



                              I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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