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  • #91
    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

    Well Obama had to inherit a sort of depression, not as major as what FDR inherited under Herbert Hoover. The US economy slid a bit during GWB's later years,

    Netanyahu and Israel thanked Obama numerous times btw for fighting AQ...even though Netanyahu is embroiled in scandal, the man may be sent to jail at some point. Obama has never had to worry about the types of accusations Trump and Netanyahu have. Thats just a fact, Obama has been happily married to Michelle for years. Obama has not been married multiple times, there is no one out there accusing Obama is sexual assault. With Trump, Trump may be innocent but Trump has in a sense put himself into these holes by surrounding himself with the wrong people..like some of those such as Cohen, Manafort and folks that pled guilty to crimes. Pleading guilty is not what innocents do. Look at the central park 5, kids that maintained there innocence in jail even at parole hearings.. and yet how fast Trumps closet have turned on him such as Michael Cohen. Cohen once praised here on ACG, but not today though.. Trump is a fellow human though and I dont hate or anyone in the world for that matter. I respect the office of the POTUS and I hope that Trump can do what he said which is bring back the steel and auto jobs...that has yet to occur though in large enough numbers.

    Obama won the popular vote twice, Trump in a rarity lost the popular vote in 2016. Obama was voted in by the American people twice because he has accomplishments. Trump needs to do alot more to live up to Obama, consider the loss of good jobs, can Trump actually bring back the middle class. Because inner cities still struggle mightily, those folks today are in a struggle and TBH the inner cities have struggled since the late 1990s but again Trump says he will do these amazing things, lets hope he does.

    Here are some of Obamas accomplishments. Killing OBL is a huge one, and some conservatives overlook that.

    1 – Rescued the country from the Great Recession, cutting the unemployment rate from 10% to 4.7% over six years

    Except that was the worst unemployment and underemployment rate since the end of WW 2. The economy's growth was lethargic for all eight years of Obama's administration. The number of people on food stamps and welfare grew to an all-time high. Obama's answer to critics was "This is the new normal."

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswo.../#48410a703ca2

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/7970/...-aaron-bandler

    https://www.investors.com/politics/e...c-growth-jobs/

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...al-barack-oba/

    2 – Signed the Affordable Care Act which provided health insurance to over 20 million uninsured Americans

    Except that most of those people already had insurance and were forced to go to Obamacare. Even then, most of the new enrollment was on expanded Medicaide not individual policies. That was followed by the most massive increases in policy costs in history (yes, those were heavily subsidized), and a huge decrease in policy selection.
    Here in Arizona, people buying on the Obamacare market were reduced to one company selling policies and at one point Pinal County had no companies offering coverage.
    So, he might have enacted it, but it was a total disaster.


    3 – Ended the war in Iraq

    The war in Iraq was already over. All Obama did was withdraw most US forces from Iraq leaving a power vacuum that resulted in the escalation of the Syrian civil war and the rise of ISIS.

    4 – Ordered for the capture and killing of Osama Bin Laden

    After knowing about it for nearly eight months and dithering over whether to do a raid or not. Bin Laden's capture and death were also not attributable to anything Obama did to move that forward other than eventually agree to do a raid to get him.

    5 – Passed the $787 billion America Recovery and Reinvestment Act to spur economic growth during the Great Recession

    Which did nothing to help the economy recover and for the most part was simply money squandered on nonsense like doorbells for a town in Mississippi ($92,000), or here in Arizona art and decoration for overpasses on a couple of Interstates along with stops for light rail in Phoenix. Massive waste of money that was poorly managed.

    6 – Supported the LGBT community’s fight for marriage equality

    Hardly a big feather in his hat considering that started out as an effort to get it passed at the state level where 35 different states turned it down. It was only through the courts that it happened and Obama simply rode the coattails of that.

    7 – Commuted the sentences of nearly 1200 drug offenders to reverse “unjust and outdated prison sentences”

    How do you know they were "unjust?" The vast ,majority of people in prison deserve everything they got and often more.

    8 – Saved the U.S. auto industry

    Hardly. That was a loss of about $16 to $20 billion for the government depending on who's numbers you want to accept. And, just remember, Ford took nothing. Only GM and Chrysler, the later of whom is still financially on shaky ground, took the money. That's because both built crappy vehicles people didn't want to buy, had too much management, and were simply inefficient companies. The US auto industry would have survived in any case.

    9 – Helped put the U.S. ontrack for energy independence by 2020

    This is utter BS. Obama's push for 'green' energy was a total fiasco. His administration all but stopped issuing permits for new oil and gas wells on public land. It was only fracking by energy companies on existing wells and private property that got the natural gas industry to a surplus. You need look no further than Ivanpah Solar in California to see just how bad solar is.

    10 – Began the drawdown of troops in Afghanistan

    We're still there. That's hardly some significant accomplishment.

    Supported veterans through a $78 billion tuition assistance GI bill


    Just a rehash of existing programs like the Montgomery GI bill.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
      If you ask me, these type of people aren't mature enough to raise sane children.
      No one is asking you.....

      Seriously, you already claimed that it is conservatives raising children that are the problem.

      "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
        If you ask me, these type of people aren't mature enough to raise sane children.
        What is the connection between maturity and sanity? You've lost me on that one.

        Stupidity is terminal, but usually maturity does develop if a person lives long enough.

        We are not now that strength which in old days
        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Massena View Post

          What is the connection between maturity and sanity? You've lost me on that one.

          Stupidity is terminal, but usually maturity does develop if a person lives long enough.



          a

          a three and a half century lifespan might suffice....
          The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
            As opposed to the Bush's...







            Or Bill Clinton (Hillary was never President so she doesn't count here)






            Look closely at the Clinton book illustration. Slick Willie was IN His ELEMENT , teaching the kiddos about.....err....cats...
            The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

            Comment


            • #96
              The Democratic Party wishes they had thought of that idea first.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                This is patently untrue. The Palestinians want a war. They voted in Hamas in the Gaza strip and have had war with Israel ever since. There is no effort to remove them coming from the Palestinian side. Hell, even Egypt doesn't want them coming in even temporarily. The PLO and PA in the East Bank are more about personal enrichment and corruption than doing anything to actually try and get a Palestinian state together.
                The Palestinians are like a bunch of street gangsters. They fight any authority over them, and only are interested in their personal enrichment. Thuggery is the modus operandi they take.
                I say the only true way forward is let them fight. Let the Palestinians fight each other and Israel, no holds barred. I want a winner. The fighting ends when all parties are either dead or willing to fight no more. If that means the Palestinians are decimated and wiped out, too bad for them. The whole thing ends.

                That's rather more common in the World that you may think, TAG.

                In practical terms , The East Bank of Palestine, and the Gaza strip are already two separate entities, with two radically different solution paths. I agree with the LDS study that argues for a three state solution.

                But, what the heck. My right wing friends think I'm a Pinkostineian.
                My left friends believe I'm an Israeli stooge.
                Can't win for trying...
                The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

                Comment


                • #98
                  Why should we care if Israel bans them from coming in and why would these two women want to go there?

                  Pruitt
                  Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                  Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                  by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                    I have been to Israel and Saudi Arabia. I don't know what you are using to form your opinion but I do know they are completely different and what you are posting about Israel is incorrect. Granted I was there a while ago but my daughter just left there...she didn't see what you are describing either.

                    BTW, posting an opinion piece from Bill Mahar doesn't mean I'm buying into it. Same when questioning someone posting a lie about Trump, that doesn't make the person pro Trump or a Trumpet as some people like to label them.
                    Why not defend Saudi if you were to also defend Israel. Wrt to Israel, perhaps you have not been in the zones that segregate sexes on buses, a clear infringement of basic human rights as is the prevention of interfaith marriage. Nowhere in the USA would the types of intolerance we see in Israel and Saudi occur. Politicans like Omar and Talib acutally are pro LGBT, and they are right to criticize Israel and Saudi. Its the far right anti Anti Americans making this situation something it is not, trying to say Omar and Talib are some kind of bigots...thats a bad approach its anti humane it forgets about the liberal Israels and Palestinians that are not criminals but people that want a better life. The people of Saudi and Israel are diverse, many want more liberal values in there country, there have been advancements in Saudi recently, steps in the right direction if you will. Israel is more liberal compared to Saudi but Israel is not on the same grounds in terms of having a free society as Turkey, much or all of Europe and North America as well as much of South America. LGBT marriage is prevented in Israel, as is interfaith marriage that does not happen in much or all of North and South American, South Africa as well as much or all of Europe.

                    https://forward.com/news/128820/isra...s-riding-high/




                    I see conservatives only quoting Maher when it is convenient. In the same video you quoted Maher goes on at length about climate change and dangers to the environment, the very things many conservatives here disagree with. Maher was wrong IMO wrt the way he spoke about Israel on Friday. I watched the segment and disagreed with Maher.

                    Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                    Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                    George S Patton

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                      Why should we care if Israel bans them from coming in and why would these two women want to go there?

                      Pruitt
                      Talib has a grandmother in Palestine, thats her reason and possibly to criticize Israel and probably many Governments of Muslim majority countries. With Omar she is not related to Israel/Palestine, but she probably wants to tag along Talib to criticize intolerance in the middle east. IMO Talib and Omar should criticize any intolerant Gov in the world in a diplomatic way.
                      Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                      Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                      George S Patton

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                        On the economy, Obama like Trump can take credit for lowering the unemployment rate. There is no way around that fact. The numbers show us.
                        Summary


                        The numbers are nearly all in now. What they show about what really happened during the eight years that Barack Obama was president is sometimes different from what politicians claimed.
                        • The economy gained a net 11.6 million jobs. The unemployment rate dropped to below the historical norm.
                        • Average weekly earnings for all workers were up 4.0 percent after inflation. The gain was 3.7 percent for just production and nonsupervisory employees.
                        • After-tax corporate profits also set records, as did stock prices. The S&P 500 index rose 166 percent.
                        • The number of people lacking health insurance dropped by 15 million. Premiums rose, but more slowly than before.
                        • The federal debt owed to the public rose 128 percent. Deficits were rising as Obama departed.
                        • Home prices rose 20 percent. But the home ownership rate hit the lowest point in half a century.
                        • Illegal immigration declined: The Border Patrol caught 35 percent fewer people trying to get into the U.S. from Mexico.
                        • Wind and solar power increased 369 percent. Coal production declined 38 percent. Carbon emissions from burning fossil fuel dropped 11 percent.
                        • Production of handguns rose 192 percent, to a record level.
                        • The murder rate dropped to the lowest on record in 2014, then rose and finished at the same rate as when Obama took office.

                        https://www.factcheck.org/2017/09/obamas-final-numbers/

                        One question can be asked though is what types of jobs did Americans gain under Obama and Trump, because the #s show a jobs increase. That would be another issue...Its one thing to bring in jobs but look around the country...even with Trumps alleged great economy..inner cities have potholes all over, bad jobs and violence. The same inner cities that were once home to massive amounts of steel and auto workers. Since the 1990s many middle class jobs have been lost and not regained. Obama could have done better he like Trump gets credit for lowering the unemployment, but neither was able to bring back the middle class jobs like we used to have...that is something Trump can do, we will see if he can because so far he has not.


                        Obama took out OBL..He did a great job...Trump should take out the leader of ISIL, that would be a similar accomplishment. It was not under GWB or Trump that OBL was killed but that was under Obama so its another issue there is no way around...its the right thing to praise Obama for taking out OBL, I think you would agree.


                        As for the Gov bailout of GM...reports show this was in part a success. Gm Outsold Toyota in 2011 for example. Whatever is the case, here are we are now in 2019 and we need more steel and auto jobs or some other type of middle class jobs brought back in high numbers, Trump said he would do this and more...lets see about that.

                        https://www.latimes.com/business/la-...120-story.html

                        Financial Crisis Bailouts Have Earned Taxpayers Billions



                        The government's corporate assistance during the financial crisis has returned profits to the Treasury.

                        https://money.usnews.com/investing/a...ayers-billions


                        A huge issue is Obamas life Vs Trumps. Obama does not have any sexual allegations against him but Trump does. Obama has been derided by countless media outlets as is Trump today, but with that said the allegations against Trump not only wrt sexual assault, but Cohen for example criticizes Trump, many of Trumps former associates have came out in criticism of Trump sometimes because Trump starts the war of words.


                        Because of Obama more people had health insurance. Health insurance(not plastic surgery) ought be covered and provided to all citizens of The USA...all basic needs covered. The USA is the richest country in the world spending trillions on wars in the middle east..We have the ability to have national healthcare without taking money from anyone which is what the far right sometimes says which is anti American on the part of the far right. The far right though takes the topic of Obama and health insurance to unreal anti American levels..and I would not buy into those folks if I were you. You look at the so called far left, they were never in power in the Democratic party at least not as a POTUS or major politician but the far right would have folks think otherwise. The truth more could have been done under Obama because its not like we have universal healthcare, but Obama did get the jobs done wrt providing more Americans with health insurance. With health insurance, folks can work better and not have to worry...it benefits the whole economy. Americans with health insurance and a good middle class job spread there money around...thats what occur ed in the great days of America in the 1940s-1990s when middle class Americans spread money around to car dealerships, restaurants and more.

                        Since Obamacare Became Law, 20 Million More Americans Have Gained Health Insurance

                        https://fortune.com/2018/11/15/obama...nce-uninsured/
                        Last edited by Stonewall_Jack; 18 Aug 19, 22:05.
                        Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                        Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                        George S Patton

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

                          Talib has a grandmother in Palestine, thats her reason and possibly to criticize Israel and probably many Governments of Muslim majority countries. With Omar she is not related to Israel/Palestine, but she probably wants to tag along Talib to criticize intolerance in the middle east. IMO Talib and Omar should criticize any intolerant Gov in the world in a diplomatic way.
                          Then they should start with Palestinians in the East Bank and Gaza. A Palestinian or Arab, and ever someone who's Muslim can live in Israel. Muslims and Christians can serve in the Israeli government and military, and do.
                          On the other hand, a Jew living in Gaza or the East Bank is not going to be allowed to publicly or freely practice their religion and is in grave threat of being attacked or killed. Even a Christian is at risk for being attacked or killed within Palestinian territory.

                          If there is open and prevalent intolerance it's among the Palestinians first and foremost. This doesn't mean Israel is by any means absolved or perfect. They too have their share of intolerance and hate, but it pales beside what goes on in the Palestinian territories.

                          As for Omar, as I pointed out clearly, she has a long history of association with hate groups like the MSA who want Israel wiped off the map and every Jew killed. She has been officially censured by Congress for her anti-Semitic statements.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

                            On the economy, Obama like Trump can take credit for lowering the unemployment rate. There is no way around that fact. The numbers show us.
                            Summary


                            The numbers are nearly all in now. What they show about what really happened during the eight years that Barack Obama was president is sometimes different from what politicians claimed.
                            • The economy gained a net 11.6 million jobs. The unemployment rate dropped to below the historical norm.

                              That is if you use the U30 (30 day unemployment rate) which is really total BS, regardless of who's in office. A better measure is the labor participation rate.



                              What happened, as this graph shows, is that people gave up looking for work and went on unemployment and welfare instead. During the Obama years the labor participation rate fell to the lowest point in over half a century. The number of people going on disability, welfare, food stamps, and other government assistance skyrocketed under Obama.

                            • Average weekly earnings for all workers were up 4.0 percent after inflation. The gain was 3.7 percent for just production and nonsupervisory employees.

                              It may have increased some, but for most of Obama's presidency wages and household income tanked as millions went unemployed.



                              https://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/15/grad...e-numbers.html
                            • After-tax corporate profits also set records, as did stock prices. The S&P 500 index rose 166 percent.

                              A big reason for this was that corporations were holding profits and not reinvesting because of Obama administration policies. When regulatory growth is large corporations react by stashing cash rather than reinvesting because of the uncertainty of cost of those regulations. They also hold off expanding and hiring for the same reason. This is one of the big causes for the terrible labor utilization rate under Obama.
                            • The number of people lacking health insurance dropped by 15 million. Premiums rose, but more slowly than before.

                              Even Mother Jones shows that initially, there was a rise in uninsured. They also show that a large chunk of new enrollees was into Medicade rather than buying policies. That follows the low labor utilizaiton rate again. More long term unemployed, means more people going on the dole.

                            • The federal debt owed to the public rose 128 percent. Deficits were rising as Obama departed.

                              True. This is likely to continue with any President as Congress can't get their collective act together and make meaningful cuts in government. The question is at what rate does it rise? The rise under Obama was steep and massive.
                            • Home prices rose 20 percent. But the home ownership rate hit the lowest point in half a century.

                              Another bad thing.
                            • Illegal immigration declined: The Border Patrol caught 35 percent fewer people trying to get into the U.S. from Mexico.

                              Terrible economy makes people less inclined to come...
                            • Wind and solar power increased 369 percent. Coal production declined 38 percent. Carbon emissions from burning fossil fuel dropped 11 percent.

                              Coal was on its way out to be replaced by natural gas. And, 369% of next to nothing is still nothing.



                              Toss in the horrid track record of big commercial solar plants in the US and it looks even worse:

                              Solana, the biggest solar plant in Arizona managed to get hit with the biggest environmental fine the state has ever levied against a company:

                              https://www.azcentral.com/story/mone...ines/91135450/

                              Then the plant got hit by a microburst thunderstorm and almost a third of it was destroyed.

                              https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news...damage-8671474

                              Then you have the Ivanpah "bird cooker" in California. This is the largest solar plant in the US and an unmitigated disaster.

                              https://www.wired.com/2016/05/huge-s...east-problems/

                              https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6...lar-in-the-us/

                              https://www.pe.com/2017/01/23/ivanpa...e-natural-gas/

                              T. Boone Pickens in Texas was the largest wind investor. He quit building wind farms because they're not profitable.

                              https://www.fastcompany.com/1514275/...xas-wind-power

                              https://www.barrons.com/articles/t-b...rgy-1473199279

                              Basically, Obama's push for things "Green" was a disaster across the board.
                            • Production of handguns rose 192 percent, to a record level.

                              I wonder why...
                            • The murder rate dropped to the lowest on record in 2014, then rose and finished at the same rate as when Obama took office.

                              It's been dropping pretty steadily so I doubt Obama did anything here either way in regards to that.

                            https://www.factcheck.org/2017/09/obamas-final-numbers/
                            Factcheck.org did a good job of cherry picking their data. Also Factcheck is a shill for the Democrats in any case.

                            One question can be asked though is what types of jobs did Americans gain under Obama and Trump, because the #s show a jobs increase. That would be another issue...Its one thing to bring in jobs but look around the country...even with Trumps alleged great economy..inner cities have potholes all over, bad jobs and violence. The same inner cities that were once home to massive amounts of steel and auto workers. Since the 1990s many middle class jobs have been lost and not regained. Obama could have done better he like Trump gets credit for lowering the unemployment, but neither was able to bring back the middle class jobs like we used to have...that is something Trump can do, we will see if he can because so far he has not.
                            Most of the jobs created in the Obama era were lower wage ones. Companies were hedging their bets and hoarding cash against increased government taxes and regulation. Obama tried to create a "green" economy, but as I've shown above that was a disasterous failure.

                            Obama took out OBL..He did a great job...Trump should take out the leader of ISIL, that would be a similar accomplishment. It was not under GWB or Trump that OBL was killed but that was under Obama so its another issue there is no way around...its the right thing to praise Obama for taking out OBL, I think you would agree.
                            Took him long enough.

                            https://pjmedia.com/blog/leon-panett...kill-bin-laden

                            https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...-laden/263449/

                            In the end, bin Laden was taken and killed. So, Obama deserves credit for that.


                            A huge issue is Obamas life Vs Trumps. Obama does not have any sexual allegations against him but Trump does. Obama has been derided by countless media outlets as is Trump today, but with that said the allegations against Trump not only wrt sexual assault, but Cohen for example criticizes Trump, many of Trumps former associates have came out in criticism of Trump sometimes because Trump starts the war of words.
                            Personally, I could care less about what public figures do in the bedroom or with consenting adults. Different story with minors and clear cases of forced or unwanted behavior. But, it's got to be more than he said, she said. The Kavanaugh hearings sounded that loud and clear. They should never have gone where they did.

                            Because of Obama more people had health insurance. Health insurance(not plastic surgery) ought be covered and provided to all citizens of The USA...all basic needs covered. The USA is the richest country in the world spending trillions on wars in the middle east..We have the ability to have national healthcare without taking money from anyone which is what the far right sometimes says which is anti American on the part of the far right. The far right though takes the topic of Obama and health insurance to unreal anti American levels..and I would not buy into those folks if I were you. You look at the so called far left, they were never in power in the Democratic party at least not as a POTUS or major politician but the far right would have folks think otherwise. The truth more could have been done under Obama because its not like we have universal healthcare, but Obama did get the jobs done wrt providing more Americans with health insurance. With health insurance, folks can work better and not have to worry...it benefits the whole economy. Americans with health insurance and a good middle class job spread there money around...thats what occur ed in the great days of America in the 1940s-1990s when middle class Americans spread money around to car dealerships, restaurants and more.
                            I think we need to get health insurance out of the friggin' picture to the maximum extent possible. It is a major reason for the rise in costs:





                            Comment


                            • Tlaib and Omar held a press conference on this just a little while ago. Both railed against Israel and praised Palestine. Tlaib was granted access to see her grandmother on the condition she not politicize the visit and push the BDS narrative. Tlaib initially agreed then declined after talking to her family in Palestine. An Israeli government spokesperson was quoted as saying "I guess she hates Israel more than she loves her grandmother..."

                              They also trotted in some handpicked members of the US Jewish and Palestinian community to rail against Trump and Israel. I noted that all their picks were female. One lady who was "Jewish" was sleeved with tattoos. I thought that was a big taboo in both the Jewish and Muslim religions.

                              I definitely get the impression listening to them, that both do hate Israel, that both are anti-Semites, and that both support Palestinian terrorist groups at least in private.

                              That either one is now in Congress is a serious affront to the American people. Think of them as the face of hate on the radical Left in America today.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                                Why should we care if Israel bans them from coming in and why would these two women want to go there?

                                Pruitt
                                We should care because Trump was complicit in Israel's banning of the two Congresswomen. That is disgraceful. He is taking his hatred for two political opponents in the US internationally and with an ally.
                                We are not now that strength which in old days
                                Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                                Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                                To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                                Comment

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