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US and Israel Involvement in Syria - Which Side Supports Al Qaeda?

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  • TactiKill J.
    replied
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
    Dates of the articles/links show it's old news and not current. Also, I didn't see any thing that directly confirms of USA "support"* to Islamic Jihadist/AQ. Nor evidence of that "support"* being other than humanitarian medical treatment. If you see/have such, please present in specific quote/excerpt/example.

    * Such as weapons supplied, advisors provided, or military ops performed to assist.
    It doesn't need to be current, it needs to be accurate. Until you accept that, we can't move forward.

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
    Dates of the articles/links show it's old news and not current. Also, I didn't see any thing that directly confirms of USA "support"* to Islamic Jihadist/AQ. Nor evidence of that "support"* being other than humanitarian medical treatment. If you see/have such, please present in specific quote/excerpt/example.

    * Such as weapons supplied, advisors provided, or military ops performed to assist.
    I was talking about the claim that someone tried to dispute as supposedly coming from one biased source. And the date of the articles being 2 years old is irrelevant as long as the war is going on. Unless, you want to argue that 2 years ago would be okay to cooperate with al-Nasra but today it is not. Anyway, as I said, those stories which come even from Israelis and former members of the Department of Defense and Knesset reflect the motto "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" And this tactic has been used by everybody and is as much valid in 2019 as it was in 2017 or in 1987 or in 600 AD or in 490 BC.

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Dates of the articles/links show it's old news and not current. Also, I didn't see any thing that directly confirms of USA "support"* to Islamic Jihadist/AQ. Nor evidence of that "support"* being other than humanitarian medical treatment. If you see/have such, please present in specific quote/excerpt/example.

    * Such as weapons supplied, advisors provided, or military ops performed to assist.

    Leave a comment:


  • TactiKill J.
    replied
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

    Where did I say anything about a "statute of limitations"?
    I'm merely pointing out that the sources used by you and others are:
    A) Very dated, and not Current.
    Unless there's a statute of limitations, the article being 4 years old is irrelevant. All that matters in proving that Israel supports terrorists is the accuracy of the article, which has nothing to do with the date. Aside from that, 4 years is hardly "very dated". In terms of its accuracy it has been confirmed straight from the horses mouth. Mossad leaders and other intelligence officials confirming their support for certain terrorist groups. Support that extends past medical treatment. The date of the article doesn't alter any of that, which is why it's peculiar (stupid) that you would even bring that up.

    Meanwhile, thanks for re-confirming your lack of grasp on those "complexities and nuances" I was trying to present.
    The only complexities present in your posts is how your allege values often shift depending on which biases and prejudices you need to support at the current time.

    I'm more than happy to prove you wrong. But, you first need to explain how the date of the article discredits its accuracy. Especially when the statements made in said article have already been confirmed by Israel itself.

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

    1) From over four years ago;
    29 June 2015,

    2) Headlines give a better clue;

    Israel acknowledges it is helping Syrian rebel fighters

    Defense minister says Jerusalem assists insurgents in exchange for promise Druze will be kept out of harm’s way
    ...
    (Some excerpts);
    Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon said Monday that Israel has been providing aid to Syrian rebels, thus keeping the Druze in Syria out of immediate danger. Israeli officials have previously balked at confirming on the record that the country has been helping forces that are fighting to overthrow Syrian President Bashar Assad.

    During a briefing with Israel’s diplomatic correspondents at the IDF’s headquarters in Tel Aviv, Ya’alon said that Israel’s ongoing humanitarian assistance to Syrian rebel fighters, a source of growing conflict between Israel and its own Druze population, safeguards the minority population in Syria.

    Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon attends an IDF exercise on May 7, 2015 (Diana Hananshvili/Defense Ministry)

    Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon said Monday that Israel has been providing aid to Syrian rebels, thus keeping the Druze in Syria out of immediate danger. Israeli officials have previously balked at confirming on the record that the country has been helping forces that are fighting to overthrow Syrian President Bashar Assad.

    During a briefing with Israel’s diplomatic correspondents at the IDF’s headquarters in Tel Aviv, Ya’alon said that Israel’s ongoing humanitarian assistance to Syrian rebel fighters, a source of growing conflict between Israel and its own Druze population, safeguards the minority population in Syria.

    “We’ve assisted them under two conditions,” Ya’alon said of the Israeli medical aid to the Syrian rebels, some of whom are presumably fighting with al-Qaeda affiliate al-Nusra Front to topple Syrian President Bashar Assad. “That they don’t get too close to the border, and that they don’t touch the Druze.”
    ...
    Israel has provided humanitarian assistance to wounded Syrian fighters located near the shared border since the civil war stated, the defense minister said. He said that such aid is extended under two conditions – that the fighters don’t let Islamic extremists to get close to the border, and that they don’t hurt the local Druze population.

    Jerusalem’s policy vis--vis the Druze in Syria “is very complicated and sensitive,” Ya’alon said, adding that it is not in the rebels’ interest to publicize the fact that Israel assists them.

    “Our general policy is that we’re not getting involved in the Syrian war,” he stressed, although there were certain red lines Israel would act to maintain, such as the smuggling of so-called game-changing weapons to Israel’s enemies.

    ”We will not tolerate any violation of our sovereignty or even accidental fire from Syria into our territory. We will act immediately to strike at those who plant explosives near the border or fire at us,” he declared.
    ...
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon...r-israeli-aid/
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    This article link is two years old and some content;
    " The former Israeli defence minister Moshe Ya’alon has publicly confirmed that Israel was treating fighters under a deal to help protect the border "
    ...
    The UK does not recognise Israel’s annexation of the Golan Heights from Syria. Patel had broken the protocol that British ministers and officials do not go to the Golan, and certainly not Israeli military facilities there, with Israeli officials. Furthermore, she did not tell the Foreign Office or Downing Street about the visit. The news that it took place was broken by the Haaretz newspaper.

    No 10 said in a statement: “The Secretary of State did discuss potential ways to provide medical support for Syrian refugees who are wounded and who cross into the Golan for aid. The Israeli army runs field hospitals there for Syrians wounded in the civil war. But there is no change in policy in the area. The UK does not provide any financial support for the Israeli army.”
    ...
    But, crucially for the Israelis, the jihadi groups are fighting the Lebanese Hezbollah, Israel’s mortal enemies, whose militia is in Syria alongside the Iranians and Russians, propping up the Assad regime. During a visit earlier this year to the Golan I was told by a 19-year-old Israeli soldier from the field hospital that he makes no distinction between those who come seeking help. “I don’t know and I don’t care, my job is to do the best I can to help anyone who arrives here injured.” But, he acknowledged later, that it was Hezbollah who are the obvious enemy.

    A major in the intelligence corps pointed out that missiles coming across the border “have been from the regime side, with their Iranian and Hezbollah contingents, not from the rebels”. In Syria, she added “the West thinks Sunni terrorists are worse than Shia terrorists. We don’t make that distinction.”
    ...
    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8046356.html
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    There are complexities and nuances involved here that appear to be beyond grasp of some members posting. Not to mention use of dated reference materials.
    The claim that there was some type of deal in exchange of not harming the Druzes in that area sound more like an excuse than a real reason. Israel does not have a reputation of negotiating with terrorists in exchange for avoiding their wrath. Plus, we already saw in this thread articles about the Druzes in that area and the attack they suffered from ISIS. There are even cases of Druzes attacking Israeli ambulances to lynch wounded rebels inside as they are carried inside Israel for treatment.

    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,...671371,00.html
    .
    Wounded Syrian killed when Druze lynch mob attacks IDF ambulance


    And it does not matter if the articles are two years old.. The war has not ended , and the articles still corroborate the story in the interview with the Israeli former official that was initially posted by another poster and the claim by the Israeli Druze who was a member of Knesset

    https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...f-Druse-467518

    https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes...081744269.html

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post

    Yes, but first a quick question. Is there some sort of statute of limitations when it comes to supporting terrorists that I'm not aware of? It's ok if they did it 4 years ago? Otherwise, I'm not sure how the date of the article changes anything.
    Where did I say anything about a "statute of limitations"?
    I'm merely pointing out that the sources used by you and others are:
    A) Very dated, and not Current.
    B) Per content and excerpts presented show a rather limited "supporting terrorists" in form of providing humanitarian aid/hospital treatment to "refugees" where perhaps some questions aren't asked.

    You might also consider taking a page from Sun Tzu on strategy and try better and more precisely defining the "opposition" as "Islamic Jihadists" rather than the vague generic of "terrorists".

    Also, the dating here shows that USA portion of this is during the Obama-nation years of USA foreign policy, and it was the BHO Admin. that forbade our Intel and Military from using terms like "Islamic Jihadists". Suggestive of foreign policy, intent, and lack of grasp from Community Organizer in Chief - BHO, etc.

    Meanwhile, thanks for re-confirming your lack of grasp on those "complexities and nuances" I was trying to present.

    Leave a comment:


  • TactiKill J.
    replied
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

    1) The WSJ article linked requires a subscription(pay wall?) to read in full. Have anything to offer that is more accessible?
    2) The article you link to is 4 1/2 years old:
    By Yaroslav Trofimov

    Updated March 12, 2015 12:47 pm ET

    Have anything more current to support your OP?
    Yes, but first a quick question. Is there some sort of statute of limitations when it comes to supporting terrorists that I'm not aware of? It's ok if they did it 4 years ago? Otherwise, I'm not sure how the date of the article changes anything.

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Originally posted by pamak View Post


    His story is corroborated by Israeli sources

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon...r-israeli-aid/
    1) From over four years ago;
    29 June 2015,

    2) Headlines give a better clue;

    Israel acknowledges it is helping Syrian rebel fighters

    Defense minister says Jerusalem assists insurgents in exchange for promise Druze will be kept out of harm’s way
    ...
    (Some excerpts);
    Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon said Monday that Israel has been providing aid to Syrian rebels, thus keeping the Druze in Syria out of immediate danger. Israeli officials have previously balked at confirming on the record that the country has been helping forces that are fighting to overthrow Syrian President Bashar Assad.

    During a briefing with Israel’s diplomatic correspondents at the IDF’s headquarters in Tel Aviv, Ya’alon said that Israel’s ongoing humanitarian assistance to Syrian rebel fighters, a source of growing conflict between Israel and its own Druze population, safeguards the minority population in Syria.

    Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon attends an IDF exercise on May 7, 2015 (Diana Hananshvili/Defense Ministry)

    Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon said Monday that Israel has been providing aid to Syrian rebels, thus keeping the Druze in Syria out of immediate danger. Israeli officials have previously balked at confirming on the record that the country has been helping forces that are fighting to overthrow Syrian President Bashar Assad.

    During a briefing with Israel’s diplomatic correspondents at the IDF’s headquarters in Tel Aviv, Ya’alon said that Israel’s ongoing humanitarian assistance to Syrian rebel fighters, a source of growing conflict between Israel and its own Druze population, safeguards the minority population in Syria.

    “We’ve assisted them under two conditions,” Ya’alon said of the Israeli medical aid to the Syrian rebels, some of whom are presumably fighting with al-Qaeda affiliate al-Nusra Front to topple Syrian President Bashar Assad. “That they don’t get too close to the border, and that they don’t touch the Druze.”
    ...
    Israel has provided humanitarian assistance to wounded Syrian fighters located near the shared border since the civil war stated, the defense minister said. He said that such aid is extended under two conditions – that the fighters don’t let Islamic extremists to get close to the border, and that they don’t hurt the local Druze population.

    Jerusalem’s policy vis--vis the Druze in Syria “is very complicated and sensitive,” Ya’alon said, adding that it is not in the rebels’ interest to publicize the fact that Israel assists them.

    “Our general policy is that we’re not getting involved in the Syrian war,” he stressed, although there were certain red lines Israel would act to maintain, such as the smuggling of so-called game-changing weapons to Israel’s enemies.

    ”We will not tolerate any violation of our sovereignty or even accidental fire from Syria into our territory. We will act immediately to strike at those who plant explosives near the border or fire at us,” he declared.
    ...
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon...r-israeli-aid/
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Originally posted by pamak View Post
    and western sources...

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8046356.html


    This is the Israeli version of the enemy (Al-Nusra) of my enemy (Iranian backed up rebels) is my friend.
    This article link is two years old and some content;
    " The former Israeli defence minister Moshe Ya’alon has publicly confirmed that Israel was treating fighters under a deal to help protect the border "
    ...
    The UK does not recognise Israel’s annexation of the Golan Heights from Syria. Patel had broken the protocol that British ministers and officials do not go to the Golan, and certainly not Israeli military facilities there, with Israeli officials. Furthermore, she did not tell the Foreign Office or Downing Street about the visit. The news that it took place was broken by the Haaretz newspaper.

    No 10 said in a statement: “The Secretary of State did discuss potential ways to provide medical support for Syrian refugees who are wounded and who cross into the Golan for aid. The Israeli army runs field hospitals there for Syrians wounded in the civil war. But there is no change in policy in the area. The UK does not provide any financial support for the Israeli army.”
    ...
    But, crucially for the Israelis, the jihadi groups are fighting the Lebanese Hezbollah, Israel’s mortal enemies, whose militia is in Syria alongside the Iranians and Russians, propping up the Assad regime. During a visit earlier this year to the Golan I was told by a 19-year-old Israeli soldier from the field hospital that he makes no distinction between those who come seeking help. “I don’t know and I don’t care, my job is to do the best I can to help anyone who arrives here injured.” But, he acknowledged later, that it was Hezbollah who are the obvious enemy.

    A major in the intelligence corps pointed out that missiles coming across the border “have been from the regime side, with their Iranian and Hezbollah contingents, not from the rebels”. In Syria, she added “the West thinks Sunni terrorists are worse than Shia terrorists. We don’t make that distinction.”
    ...
    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8046356.html
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    There are complexities and nuances involved here that appear to be beyond grasp of some members posting. Not to mention use of dated reference materials.

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
    1) The WSJ article linked requires a subscription(pay wall?) to read in full. Have anything to offer that is more accessible?
    2) The article you link to is 4 1/2 years old:
    By Yaroslav Trofimov

    Updated March 12, 2015 12:47 pm ET

    Have anything more current to support your OP?

    Leave a comment:


  • Salinator
    replied
    Post replying to Moderator post deleted. Any public response is considered Challenge of Staff Authority.

    ACG Staff

    Leave a comment:


  • Achtung Baby
    replied
    Post deleted and warning given. You're on thin ice if the staff have to deal with more if that.

    Leave a comment:


  • TactiKill J.
    replied
    Post deleted. Personal comments directed at other members are not tolerated.

    ACG Staff.
    Last edited by Achtung Baby; 13 Dec 19, 02:30.

    Leave a comment:


  • ljadw
    replied
    Obama also was supporting those who fought against Assad, including ISIS . And the Democrats and the Media remained silent or praised Obama .Thus the leftists should remain silent and not attack Israel because it did not attack Al Nusra .

    Leave a comment:


  • ljadw
    replied
    Originally posted by pamak View Post


    His story is corroborated by Israeli sources

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon...r-israeli-aid/

    and western sources...

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8046356.html


    This is the Israeli version of the enemy (Al-Nusra) of my enemy (Iranian backed up rebels) is my friend.
    The Independent is not a western source: the Independent is the mouthpiece of ISIS.

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post

    Is a former Mossad leader reliable?

    His story is corroborated by Israeli sources

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon...r-israeli-aid/

    and western sources...

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8046356.html


    This is the Israeli version of the enemy (Al-Nusra) of my enemy (Iranian backed up rebels) is my friend.

    Leave a comment:

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