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Terror as Deterrent

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  • #31
    Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post

    The threat of losing your children through the government enforcing the consequences of your illegal actions....is not 'terror'.
    When it is being used as a deterrent, as Trump said it was, then it most certainly is the direct application of terror.
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

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    • #32
      Well, one would hope that the prospect of losing your children would deter anyone from committing criminal acts. However, my experience is that it does not deter criminals whatsoever....just results in a lot of whining, begging, and appeals to emotion when you enforce that consequence upon them. After all, Think Of The Children, don't think about the crimes being committed by people who didn't care about their own children suffering any ramifications until those ramifications manifested.......
      Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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      • #33
        It is still a terror weapon and Trump has stated he is using the threat to deter illegal immigration. That is morally wrong. And what preparations have been made by the Trump administration to take care of the children after their parents have been taken away? As far as I can see there are none. That to my mind is criminal on the part of the administration.
        We are not now that strength which in old days
        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Massena View Post
          It is still a terror weapon and Trump has stated he is using the threat to deter illegal immigration. That is morally wrong.
          These laws were on the books before Trump became president. There were written by Congress, Obama also enforced them. Why is it morally wrong only when Trump enforces them and not Obama?

          It still falls under the Congress to change the law.

          "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Nichols View Post

            These laws were on the books before Trump became president. There were written by Congress, Obama also enforced them. Why is it morally wrong only when Trump enforces them and not Obama?

            It still falls under the Congress to change the law.
            Enforcing the law is not the issue. It's how it is done and how many innocents are hurt that is the problem.
            We are not now that strength which in old days
            Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
            Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
            To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Massena View Post

              Enforcing the law is not the issue. It's how it is done and how many innocents are hurt that is the problem.
              And how would you propose enforcing it?
              A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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              • #37
                Originally posted by marktwain View Post

                Hi Cambronne

                Children have rights under the United Nations charter, and as minors, having limited capacity to contract, a duty of care from all western countries.

                Until adequate child care facilities can be provided, the raids should be suspended.
                We may be more sensitive to this in Canada, as between the residential schools and the Barnardo's programs, we have a sorry history of neglecting children in care.

                Children have rights under US law too.
                UN “law” does not supersede US law so it isn’t relevant. If there is a problem with US law, then I wonder why all those politicians screeching about the holding facilities never bothered to change it when they could have. The issue was known and discussed back then too. (Obama openly declined to address immigration)
                Despite this, they left things as they were. So, either they didn’t care, or the problem isn’t quite as awful as they presently claim. (Imagine that, politicians lying to us)

                The fact that kids are placed in a holding facility is not proof of a violation of any duty.
                The kids are being cared for and housed. It may not look good, but what other options are there once the parents are arrested?
                Canada may be more sensitive, but it doesn’t have numerous failed states on its southern border.
                I also doubt that canada has to deal with the same volume of people trying to enter the country illegally.
                Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post

                  And how would you propose enforcing it?
                  IF YOU READ THE POSTS, you'll find that is a point of discussion......
                  The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by marktwain View Post

                    IF YOU READ THE POSTS, you'll find that is a point of discussion......
                    "Suspending raids until there are adequate facilities" means not enforcing the law. So no it is not a point of discussion yet. Can you provide a proposal for enforcing the law which will outperform the current system? I'll hear you out but it must include enforcing the law or it's not an argument that "enforcing the law isn't an issue".
                    A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post

                      "Suspending raids until there are adequate facilities" means not enforcing the law. So no it is not a point of discussion yet. Can you provide a proposal for enforcing the law which will outperform the current system? I'll hear you out but it must include enforcing the law or it's not an argument that "enforcing the law isn't an issue".
                      with all due respect, I find our various exchanges are involving a degree of sophistry…..
                      The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post


                        Children have rights under US law too.
                        UN “law” does not supersede US law so it isn’t relevant. If there is a problem with US law, then I wonder why all those politicians screeching about the holding facilities never bothered to change it when they could have. The issue was known and discussed back then too. (Obama openly declined to address immigration)
                        Despite this, they left things as they were. So, either they didn’t care, or the problem isn’t quite as awful as they presently claim. (Imagine that, politicians lying to us)

                        The fact that kids are placed in a holding facility is not proof of a violation of any duty.
                        The kids are being cared for and housed. It may not look good, but what other options are there once the parents are arrested?
                        Canada may be more sensitive, but it doesn’t have numerous failed states on its southern border.
                        I also doubt that canada has to deal with the same volume of people trying to enter the country illegally.
                        Canada also has a big problem with illegal immigration now that our imbecile Prime Minister encouraged them to break the law they come through the US mostly.

                        https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...der-crossings-in-canada-yes-its-still-happening
                        Last edited by Snowshoveler; 11 Aug 19, 08:29.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by marktwain View Post

                          with all due respect, I find our various exchanges are involving a degree of sophistry…..
                          Please submit a proposed counterplan for further discussion.
                          A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post

                            Please submit a proposed counterplan for further discussion.
                            ALREADY D0NE. read MY POSTS...….
                            The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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                            • #44
                              See Post 41. There will be no further discussion until there is a counterplan to discuss.
                              A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Massena View Post

                                When it is being used as a deterrent, as Trump said it was, then it most certainly is the direct application of terror.
                                Ridiculous.

                                The penalties incurred for breaking the law are deterrents. If I get pulled over for speeding, I will bear full responsibility for my actions. I'm not being terrorized. I know the penalties, and I will be consciously breaking the law.

                                We can't cherry pick which laws are enforced and which laws aren't.

                                These parents are solely responsible for their actions, and the welfare of their children. Very simple.
                                ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                                BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                                BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

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