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  • #46
    Availabity creates opportunities.
    The lower the availability, the lower the (ab)use.
    Just like drugs.
    Drugs themselves aren't deadly until you start actually using them. It's not the drug that kills, it's the user actually pulling the trigger on injecting or swallowing.
    The drug by itself does not kill.
    "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return"

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    • #47
      This is not correct : your interpretation is questionable .
      What we don't know is the number of guns in Germany in 1928, 1933 and 1938 .
      But what we do know is that in the last free elections, 56 % of the electors voted against the Nazis ,which means that 56 % of the firearms were owned by (potential ) opponents of the regime, and that it is thus obvious that the regime would do something against it .As everyone knew everyone,thus also their political opinions, the 56 % potential opponents could expect a visit from the police,and if the police discovered fireweapons, the owners would have a vacation at Dachau or Buchenwald .
      And the picture of armed German citizens in 1943 is a picture of Hitlerjugend members who received a pre military training .
      And,finally, if the Nazis wanted to make it easier to buy/own guns, why waited they til 1938 to make a law that was making this easier ?
      The law of 1938 did not make it easier for civilians to buy/own a gun .It made it easier for certain members of the nazi party .Not for the general public .

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      • #48
        The paper here reported that there have been five (5) "mass shootings" in Arizona since the beginning of the year. The article lists some of the details of these:

        March 19 a (Hispanic-- tossing that in to show it wasn't a White so that criticism / question shouldn't come up) criminal breaks into a home and shoots those in it during a burglary. The homeowners had no defense or firearms.

        April. A man (White this time) shoots his wife and kids in a domestic violence situation where he though she was cheating on him. He then goes to shoot the man who he thought was cheating with his wife. This man and a woman survived being shot.

        March 24. Seven people shot at a rave in an old warehouse. The four shooters were likely gangsters and this was likely gang related. Nobody died in this one.

        Another mentioned in the print version was in Yuma where a homeowner shot three (3) men who had broken into his home.

        The fifth wasn't listed.

        https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...19/1956741001/

        So, of the five incidents of "mass shooting," one was domestic violence, one gang (criminal) related, one criminal activity, one self-defense, and one unknown. None of these drew national attention, and most little more than local attention in the media.





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        • #49
          Apples to rutabagas. The British did likewise.






          And the Australians...



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          • #50
            Originally posted by Rutger View Post
            Availabity creates opportunities.
            The lower the availability, the lower the (ab)use.
            Just like drugs.
            Drugs themselves aren't deadly until you start actually using them. It's not the drug that kills, it's the user actually pulling the trigger on injecting or swallowing.
            The drug by itself does not kill.
            That's reminiscent of an argument that I've advanced for a long time. Indeed, I've long believed that broad classes of drugs should have been legalized years ago. If nothing else, both the gangs that peddle in narcotics and the politicians and law enforcement personnel that peddle in fear of narcotics would find themselves rather impoverished and dis-empowered were their favorite trade goods now legally available to the general public.
            I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Rutger View Post
              Availabity creates opportunities.
              The lower the availability, the lower the (ab)use.
              Just like drugs.
              Drugs themselves aren't deadly until you start actually using them. It's not the drug that kills, it's the user actually pulling the trigger on injecting or swallowing.
              The drug by itself does not kill.


              Except the reverse is proving true.
              We have far more guns in private hands now than we did in the early 90s, and yet our murder rate has been cut in half.
              More guns may not mean fewer murders, but they certainly don't mean more murders.
              Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

              Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post



                Except the reverse is proving true.
                We have far more guns in private hands now than we did in the early 90s, and yet our murder rate has been cut in half.
                More guns may not mean fewer murders, but they certainly don't mean more murders.
                there you have a very good point. Vermont, with open carry laws and a high rate of private ownership, has an historically low rate of gun violence...
                The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by marktwain View Post

                  there you have a very good point. Vermont, with open carry laws and a high rate of private ownership, has an historically low rate of gun violence...
                  As was noted in another thread, the mayor of Chicago is blaming chicago's gun violence on the ease of getting guns in Indiana.
                  If the ease of getting guns were really the cause of gun violence why doesn't Indiana have comparable levels of gun violence?
                  The difference isn't the gun or the law, but the criminal.
                  The same is true with Vermont.

                  Guns certainly make it easier for criminals to shoot people, but possession of a gun isn't going to make you want to commit murder.

                  Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                  Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                    Apples to rutabagas. The British did likewise.
                    So did the French revolutionaries for that matter, "aux armes citoyens" was their battle cry, point to take away here is that arming the general population is not, or has ever been a safeguard against government tyranny.

                    Indeed arming the majority, and then "disarming" a unpopular minority is a tried and tested recipe for genocide/political mass murder.

                    Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                    (Ö..) .
                    For you, it should suffice to point out that there were many armed German citizens in the 1930-40s, and what you posted here is utter bollocks.

                    Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                    Which is very bad following the leftwingers /crime lobby : an armed citizen is a threat for deep state /criminals , because an armed citizen will defend his freedom .There were no armed citizens in Germany (33-45 ) and in the SU .
                    Last edited by Snowygerry; 14 Aug 19, 02:37.
                    Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                    Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post



                      I would agree, that is a guess.
                      Places like Chicago have a large number of drive by shootings by gangs or other forms of murder by the criminal element.
                      Recently, in fact, 2 women were killed in a drive by shooting as they sat on a corner in Chicago to protest gun violence.

                      The criminal element does not buy guns legally. They steal them.
                      Once they do, it becomes an "illegal" gun.

                      The vast majority of our shootings take place in the same areas where there is a high crime rate. If legal gun owners were the problem, that wouldn't be true. Shootings would be more evenly distributed, but they are not.
                      People obtaining a gun with the intent to engage in crime aren't interested in following the law with respect to a handgun purchase and they know that doing so creates a trail.

                      If legal gun owners were the problem, there would not have been a huge drop in the murder rate over the past 25 years.
                      How many of the mass shootings in he US have used legal weapons? The majority!

                      Using Mexico as an example is ludicrous. Commpare to other G7 countries or the so called advanced countrys. Then what do you get?
                      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                      youíre entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by marktwain View Post

                        there you have a very good point. Vermont, with open carry laws and a high rate of private ownership, has an historically low rate of gun violence...
                        Who was the last cowboy Rambo to live in VT?
                        "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                        Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                        youíre entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post

                          How many of the mass shootings in he US have used legal weapons? The majority!

                          Using Mexico as an example is ludicrous. Commpare to other G7 countries or the so called advanced countrys. Then what do you get?




                          I agree that many mass shootings are with legal guns.
                          That doesnít contradict or weaken any of my points.
                          Most shootings take place in high crime areas. Most people are shot with illegal guns.
                          Legal gun ownership has grown and murders have dropped. Legal gun owners arenít the principle problem. If they were, murders would not have drastically declined.
                          Please tell me where your point refutes any of these statements.

                          Why is using Mexico ludicrous?
                          Mexico is in the same situation as we are.
                          You just donít like the use of Mexico because it undermines the claim that banning guns will solve crime.
                          Sorry, we canít separate ourselves from the drugs, crime or corruption that comes with them simply by pretending them away.
                          Banning guns will work every bit as well as our effort to ban drugs.
                          Actually it will work worse, because you then make the lives of the weak and the elderly dependent on the mercy of those who would prey on them. Banning guns doesnít stop shootings, it just will change who dies.
                          According to the CDC there are 500,000-3 million defensive gun uses per year.
                          How many of them die or are severely injured if we remove their ability to defend themselves against stronger or more numerous predators?
                          Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                          Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post

                            Who was the last cowboy Rambo to live in VT?

                            In other words, law abiding citizens arenít really a threat even if they legally own guns?
                            Interesting.
                            Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                            Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                              In other words, law abiding citizens arenít really a threat even if they legally own guns?
                              Interesting.
                              Eh, "law abiding citizens" (assuming the law itself is reasonable) are never a problem, "problem" is that everyone is a law abiding citizen, up to the point they break their first law.

                              No one is born a "criminal", all start out as law abiding citizens.

                              Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                              Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post


                                In other words, law abiding citizens arenít really a threat even if they legally own guns?
                                Interesting.
                                Turkey feathers! Most all of the mass shooters have used legally own weapons and most had no criminal record.
                                "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                                Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                                youíre entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                                Comment

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