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  • #61
    Speaking of employing illegals, the Trump organization has, and continues to employ illegals. Is that not against the law?

    https://americasvoice.org/blog/trump...ented-workers/

    '‘There are millions of us here without papers, and the country depends on us. [Donald Trump] knows that because his businesses depend on us and he knows how hard I worked.” – Victorina Morales, who worked Trump’s golf course in Bedminster, New Jersey for five years while she was undocumented. Support Victorina and other undocumented workers here.'

    'From the moment he descended the stairs at the Trump Hotel in New York, Donald Trump has waged a vicious and unrelenting campaign of scapegoating and fear-mongering against immigrants. “They’re taking our jobs,” he has said. “They’re taking our money. They’re killing us.”'

    'Almost as bad were employers who hired the undocumented. Such employers should face “a huge financial penalty,” Trump said. Or it could be “beyond a financial penalty.”'

    'However, recent reporting has uncovered how the Trump Organization has employed undocumented immigrants for years across its golf courses and businesses. This was far from an isolated incident. As one Washington Post headline read, “From Costa Rica to New Jersey, a pipeline of illegal workers for Trump goes back years.” It has often been said that the U.S. immigration system is symbolized by a “keep out” sign at the border and a “help wanted” sign just past that. Trump and his businesses represent this hypocrisy perfectly, with President Trump constantly attacking immigrant communities while the Trump Organization ran on — as one former manager recalled — “the cheapest labor possible.”'

    Trump and his family are hypocrites and what they're doing and continue to do is illegal.
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

    Comment


    • #62
      If raids of this type are going to be undertaken, what happens is the responsibility of the government, including the care of the children left behind by the government's actions.

      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/we...cid=spartandhp

      'In the wake of the largest ever immigration raid in a single state, child welfare services are left grappling with children who came home from school to find their parents had been arrested at one of the seven Mississippi food processing plants targeted by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement on Wednesday.'

      'The agency said it took some precautions to ease the burden on families, but as one ICE official said, "We are a law enforcement agency, not a social services agency," noting that any advance notice to welfare agencies or schools could have alerted undocumented immigrants and botched the operation.'

      'The raids swept up almost 700 workers. Because of the lack of preparation for the impact of missing parents, local authorities had to improvise. One school district said it instructed bus drivers to make sure they saw a parent or a guardian at the bus stop before dropping off a child. In that district, children without parents at home were taken back to school to spend the night.'
      We are not now that strength which in old days
      Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
      Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
      To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Massena View Post
        If raids of this type are going to be undertaken, what happens is the responsibility of the government, including the care of the children left behind by the government's actions.
        Responsibility of the government?

        The person that breaks the law is responsible.

        How can you possibly believe that it is the responsibility of the government to take care of the crimonal's family? Why do you extend this to illegal immigrants and not to US citizens?
        "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Nichols View Post

          It is a federal misdemeanor, jaywalking isn't. This is where the difference is. A white supremacist made it a federal law in the early 20th century. Congress has not changed that law, until they do, it is supposed to be enforced.

          https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.his...o-section-1325
          Not from a Christian point of view.

          You may want to read Pauhttps://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1543589.My_Search_for_Absolutesl tillich
          The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Nichols View Post

            Responsibility of the government?

            The person that breaks the law is responsible.

            How can you possibly believe that it is the responsibility of the government to take care of the crimonal's family? Why do you extend this to illegal immigrants and not to US citizens?
            The person or organization who leaves children without their parents to care for them is responsible.

            Once again, were the plant managers and owners arrested?
            We are not now that strength which in old days
            Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
            Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
            To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

            Comment


            • #66
              Well, if the government is arresting and keeping the parents (note the plural there) in jail or custody, then the kids should go to the state and into whatever the state child protective service is. There, it can be determined if they are possibly US citizens (eg., "anchor babies") in which case the state should start proceedings to remove custody from their criminal parents and put the child up for adoption. Otherwise, the child should be held in protective custody and deported with their criminal parents.

              In all cases, the parents should get the most negative outcome from this being criminals.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by marktwain View Post

                Not from a Christian point of view.
                Cognitive disonence much?? From a Christian point of view, abortion is criminal. Should we block all abortions irrespective of current laws? Where's that separation of church and state? You can't pick and choose.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Blackhat View Post

                  Cognitive disonence much?? From a Christian point of view, abortion is criminal. Should we block all abortions irrespective of current laws? Where's that separation of church and state? You can't pick and choose.


                  After getting around the spelling- I gathered that you didn't look up Paul Tillich.
                  Pity




                  \Tillich is one of the greatest Protestant theologians of the 20th century. Exiled from Germany in1934, he returned twelve years later to help guide the Lutheran faiths into a new channel.

                  One of Tillich's premises is that the Kulturkampf led to a Kaiserism of German thought, a belief that one could do heinous deeds under command' - provide one privately deplored them, and still remain a 'Pure Christian.'
                  Last edited by marktwain; 09 Aug 19, 16:52.
                  The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Massena View Post
                    Again, what about the employers of the illegals? Are they not breaking the law?

                    Regarding religious bigotry, the old Moslem ban...
                    Sorry, there was no "Muslim ban".
                    You really should try and get your news from places that don't just parrot dem talking points.
                    An EO that bans muslims would be unconstitutional on its face. Given that the SCOTUS upheld Trump's "travel Ban", I suspect they determined it was not a "muslim ban". Facts remain stubborn things.
                    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/26/u...ravel-ban.html

                    I will point out that you changed the subject.
                    That usually is just an admission of the weakness of the point you originally tried to make.

                    The employers should be punished too and I hope they are.
                    And there is evidence they are.
                    They also seem to indicate that employers, who some believe have long successfully deflected punishment for their hiring practices, are squarely in the crosshairs of immigration enforcement.

                    https://www.usnews.com/news/national...llegal-workers
                    Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                    Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post

                      Sorry, there was no "Muslim ban".
                      You really should try and get your news from places that don't just parrot dem talking points.
                      An EO that bans muslims would be unconstitutional on its face. Given that the SCOTUS upheld Trump's "travel Ban", I suspect they determined it was not a "muslim ban". Facts remain stubborn things.
                      https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/26/u...ravel-ban.html

                      I will point out that you changed the subject.
                      That usually is just an admission of the weakness of the point you originally tried to make.

                      The employers should be punished too and I hope they are.
                      And there is evidence they are.
                      They also seem to indicate that employers, who some believe have long successfully deflected punishment for their hiring practices, are squarely in the crosshairs of immigration enforcement.

                      https://www.usnews.com/news/national...llegal-workers
                      Trump announced that he was seeking it. That it finally failed and then was morphed into something else by the addition of North Korea, says volumes.
                      We are not now that strength which in old days
                      Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                      Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                      To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Massena View Post

                        The person or organization who leaves children without their parents to care for them is responsible.
                        No, the parents that broke the law are responsible.

                        Why do people feel that illegals should receive benefits that US citizens don't?

                        "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                          No, the parents that broke the law are responsible.

                          Why do people feel that illegals should receive benefits that US citizens don't?
                          Once again a question that you refuse to answer:

                          Were the owners and managers of the plants where the illegals worked charged for hiring them?

                          Why has the Trump organization not been charged for hiring illegals?
                          We are not now that strength which in old days
                          Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                          Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                          To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            The owners and management at the Chicken Processing Plants should be held responsible. A big fine will also help. If they paid enough, Americans would do the work.

                            Pruitt
                            Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                            Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                            by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Massena View Post

                              Once again a question that you refuse to answer:

                              Were the owners and managers of the plants where the illegals worked charged for hiring them?

                              Why has the Trump organization not been charged for hiring illegals?
                              I don't know if the owners were charged. There have been previous cases where they were. The most famous and probably largest was Filiberto's here in Phoenix. The company had hundreds of illegals working for them, had company owned safe houses, etc. They got hit for millions in fines.

                              http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/ar...ne-of-1-9m-ins

                              The owners went to prison and paid over $1.9 million in fines, not just for illegal immigration but tax evasion, identity theft, kidnapping, and a whole raft of other charges.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                [QUOTE=Pirateship1[B]982;n5133648]

                                Which is an invocation to obey the law.[/[/B]QUOTE]

                                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirchenkampf

                                That is a dangerous path to walk....

                                Martin Bormann became Hitler's private secretary and de facto "deputy" Führer in April 1941. He was a leading advocate of the Kirchenkampf.[46] Bormann was a rigid guardian of National Socialist orthodoxy[citation needed] and saw Christianity and Nazism as "'incompatible,' primarily because the essential elements of Christianity were 'taken over from Judaism.'"[12] He said publicly in 1941 that "National Socialism and Christianity are irreconcilable".[39] Bormann's view of Christianity was epitomized in a confidential memo to Gauleiters in 1942; it reignited the fight against Christianity which had been in a détente, stating that the power of the churches "must absolutely and finally be broken" as Nazism "was completely incompatible with Christianity."[46]

                                William Shirer wrote that the German people were not greatly aroused by the persecution of the churches by the Nazi government. The great majority were not moved to face death or imprisonment for the sake of freedom of worship, being too impressed by Hitler's early foreign policy successes and the restoration of the German economy. Few paused to reflect "that under the leadership of Rosenberg, Bormann and Himmler, who were backed by Hitler, the Nazi regime intended to destroy Christianity in Germany, if it could, and substitute the old paganism of the early tribal Germanic gods and the new paganism of the Nazi extremists."[39]
                                Tilich and few others in exile were the lonely opposition..
                                The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

                                Comment

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