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  • #46
    Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post
    How many of the 300 million are mentally unstable?

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    • #47
      The more serious question towards the title of this thread is:

      How in the Hell would you make such a thing happen? I mean a real AWB, not a manufacture/purchase ban? There were guns in WW2 that had served in WW1 and are still shot by collectors today. Guns are a durable good, so without actually destroying them they're not going to go away for at a minimum 50 and on the high end 200 years even with moderate to hard use.

      And as for my question......America was founded by 'Rebels with a Cause'. America gained its independence through the efforts of 'Rebels with a Cause'. America put down a rebellion of 'Rebels with a cause' and that group was rather polite about it compared to actual 'Civil Wars', and it was still bloody as hell. Almost all of our actual and folk heroes are or at a point were 'Rebels with a Cause'.

      I say that to say this. Overall, Americans are very law abiding. But Americans do not have a millenium of subservience to a state actor (Lord-Vassal, etc) in their psyche (like virtually all of Europe does). We were the Anti-King people after all. Instead Americans have a proud tradition of fighting against state actors that they feel to be tyrants....and that's burned into the national psyche. So a state program of gun confiscation won't be viewed by an average American subconscious as just another law to abide. It'll be viewed subconsciously (IOW even if the person doesn't realize this is their view) as an abberration, an affront, and an insult to honor, tradition, and rights that cannot be allowed to stand. Some of course will submit. But how many simply Won't? And not from a position of being part of any organization....just from a psychological sense of they just Won't.
      Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post

        weird that your graph excludes nations like Mexico.

        There were 25,339 homicides in Mexico last year, a 23% jump from 2016 and the highest number since at least 1997, the year the government began tracking the data. Overall, murders in Mexico had been declining in recent years, reaching a low of 15,520 in 2014.

        https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/22/ameri...017/index.html

        Per the FBI, the US has about 11,000 gun related homicides per year.
        The US has more people, more guns, weaker gun laws and yet significantly fewer murders. It is almost as if there isn't a direct relationship between guns and murder and we know that can't be right.


        Since the 1990s, the gun related murder rate has dropped significantly while gun ownership has exploded. How is such a thing possible if guns cause murders?
        I haven't time to check the details, but wondering how many of those deaths by firearms are citizens and LEOs defending themselves ?
        TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

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        • #49
          BTW, slight quibble here on terms.
          If I take a baseball bat and beat someone to death with it, isn't that bat and "assault weapon"?

          My point being anything, including fists, if used to assault someone is a weapon. This thread should be more correctly titled "assault firearms", though even that would be short of accurate. Per the broad and loose language here, my semi-automatic Glock is an "assault weapon", same with my semi-automatic Ruger 10/22.
          TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

            I haven't time to check the details, but wondering how many of those deaths by firearms are citizens and LEOs defending themselves ?
            Source for all
            https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...panded-offense

            2017
            15,129 Homicides
            10,982 by Guns, 4,147 by other means of which
            Handguns 7,032
            Rifles 403
            Shotguns 264
            Other guns 187
            Firearms, type not stated 3,096

            Knives or cutting instruments 1,591
            Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.) 467
            Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.) (includes pushing) 696
            Poison 13
            Explosives 0
            Fire 103
            Narcotics 97
            Drowning 8
            Strangulation 88
            Asphyxiation 105
            Other weapons or weapons not stated 979

            Murder Victims
            White 4,616/1,958 (male/female) Also note 576 where killed by blacks
            Black 6,789/1,060 Also note only 264 where killed by whites (In short by in large their killed by own race)
            Other race 315/141
            Unknown race 142/63
            Hispanic or Latino1 1,899/454
            Not Hispanic or Latino1 7,692/2,065
            Unknown1 1,550/510
            1 Not all agencies provide ethnicity data; therefore, the race and ethnicity totals will not equal.

            Situation
            Single victim/single offender 6,902
            Single victim/unknown offender or offenders 4,713
            Single victim/multiple offenders 1,781
            Multiple victims/single offender 972
            Multiple victims/multiple offenders 300
            Multiple victims/unknown offender or offenders 461

            Justifiable Homicide
            Law Enforcement
            429
            Private Citizen 353

            So 782 of the 15,129 Homicides (~5%) where by Police or Civilians defending themselves, almost all by Firearms (only 60 of these where by other weapons, 54 of these where by Civilians).

            Also 750 Homicides are listed as gangland killings (their are also 2,088 unknown), most common homicide in this category (of "other than felony") is "other arguments" of which their where 3,224
            680 are due to Robbery, 90 to Burglary & 533 to Narcotic drug laws, with 800 unspecified (all these are "felony class" -the above are not classed as such)


            Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
            BTW, slight quibble here on terms.
            If I take a baseball bat and beat someone to death with it, isn't that bat and "assault weapon"?

            My point being anything, including fists, if used to assault someone is a weapon. This thread should be more correctly titled "assault firearms", though even that would be short of accurate. Per the broad and loose language here, my semi-automatic Glock is an "assault weapon", same with my semi-automatic Ruger 10/22.
            It's a made up term, to make it sound scary, and to conflate it with "Assault Rifle" which is a select fire weapon firing a intermediate cartridge.

            Most "Assault Weapons" are semi auto weapons with a detachable magazine, which includes nigh almost every modern rifle (and pistols).
            Last edited by Nebfer; 06 Aug 19, 00:02.

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            • #51
              ^Thanks!
              TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
                The more serious question towards the title of this thread is:

                How in the Hell would you make such a thing happen? I mean a real AWB, not a manufacture/purchase ban? There were guns in WW2 that had served in WW1 and are still shot by collectors today. Guns are a durable good, so without actually destroying them they're not going to go away for at a minimum 50 and on the high end 200 years even with moderate to hard use.

                And as for my question......America was founded by 'Rebels with a Cause'. America gained its independence through the efforts of 'Rebels with a Cause'. America put down a rebellion of 'Rebels with a cause' and that group was rather polite about it compared to actual 'Civil Wars', and it was still bloody as hell. Almost all of our actual and folk heroes are or at a point were 'Rebels with a Cause'.

                I say that to say this. Overall, Americans are very law abiding. But Americans do not have a millenium of subservience to a state actor (Lord-Vassal, etc) in their psyche (like virtually all of Europe does). We were the Anti-King people after all. Instead Americans have a proud tradition of fighting against state actors that they feel to be tyrants....and that's burned into the national psyche. So a state program of gun confiscation won't be viewed by an average American subconscious as just another law to abide. It'll be viewed subconsciously (IOW even if the person doesn't realize this is their view) as an abberration, an affront, and an insult to honor, tradition, and rights that cannot be allowed to stand. Some of course will submit. But how many simply Won't? And not from a position of being part of any organization....just from a psychological sense of they just Won't.
                Your final paragraph contains an interesting point-of-view. Are you saying that,inherently ,the population of Republics are more law-abiding than those residing in Monarchies despite the latter's historic "subservience" ? In the UK's case, ponder what happened in 1649. While US presidents have been disposed-of by armed citizens at one time or another , the United States have never gone through the motions of the trial and execution of their head-of-state as England did.

                Where's the historic "subservience" there ?
                Last edited by BELGRAVE; 06 Aug 19, 03:56.
                "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
                Samuel Johnson.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post

                  Your final paragraph contains an interesting point-of-view. Are you saying that,inherently ,the population of Republics are more law-abiding than those residing in Monarchies despite the latter's historic "subservience" ? In the UK's case, ponder what happened in 1649. While US presidents have been disposed-of by armed citizens at one time or another , the United States have never gone through the motions of the trial and execution of their head-of-state as England did.

                  Where's the historic "subservience" there ?
                  Or the French with their whole chop of the head thing. Or the Russians with their whole revolution thing.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    About the attacks :
                    after Dayton and El Paso,there have been already several mass shootings with 2 dead and 25 wounded .
                    there are no proofs that the Dayton and El Paso shootings were racially motivated .
                    til today there have been 255 mass shootings,with at least 520 dead and 2000 wounded .
                    if one looks at the pictures of the people arrested /charged for these shootings, the ( unpleasant for a lot of people ) conclusion is that the majority of them are blasck and latino .
                    a lot of things indicate that the reasons of the mass shootings ( reasons are not excuses )can be found in familial circumstances : broken families, intra-family violence, ...) and that they are not politically motivated .
                    The (again unpleasant for some people ) conclusion is that the claim that white nationalists are attacking the US,is a lie used by the Democrats for political reasons .
                    The overwhelming majority of the mass shooting is apolitical .
                    The picture of those arrested/charged for the shootings is available at the WND site .: typical mass shooter a white male ?.

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                    • #55
                      A series of posts consisting of personal comments and adding nothing to the discussion were removed.
                      Address the post and not the poster

                      thank you
                      ACG Staff

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post
                        How many of the 300 million are mentally unstable?
                        None, firearms are inanimate objects. ​​​​​​​
                        My worst jump story:
                        My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                        As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                        No lie.

                        ~
                        "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                        -2 Commando Jumpmaster

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                        • #57
                          My own firearms have never motivated me to use them in a way to cause harm to someone else. They don't speak to me in my sleep. They don't animate and go wandering the neighborhood looking for trouble. They just sit there doing absolutely nothing on their own.

                          It is a mental sickness and intellectual laziness and cowardness to blame an inanimate object for crimes carried out by the human using it.

                          I'm also a law-abiding gun owner than owns my guns legally. So why should my own rights and life be altered because of someone else's non-lawful actions?
                          The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

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                          • #58
                            TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

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