Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Trump vs the World

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    It's too early to say that Trump is against the world order. Put his words aside and look only at his actions. He has not yet done anything to prove he is any different from the big government liberal President who came before him.

    The fuss the media makes over Trump is all bs. In reality, the status quo has not been disrupted.
    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin

    The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
      (...) While in Europe they want to replace the little people with new serfs in the U.S. they call them irredeemably and deplorable.
      Not to mention historically ignorant, loud and easily excited.

      Not "deplorable" though - that's a US invention

      something of a business Napoleon.
      Off to Elba with him then

      This could be a fun thread.
      Last edited by Snowygerry; 25 Jun 19, 02:53.
      High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.
      Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Co.

      Comment


      • #18
        The OP conveniently forgets (or doesn't know) that the chief Brexiteers are all from extremely wealthy, from extremely wealthy families and all went to exclusive private schools. They are the very epitome of the establishment.
        The Eu, for all its faults, has consistently protected the individual citizen from the excesses of the State. That's why the Tory establishment doesn't like the EU and why a small very rich Tory cabal has tried for decades to get the UK out of the EU. By using populist slogans and lies they have constructed a Brexit narrative and managed to herd the sheep in the UK back into subjugation.
        The Brexiteers are like the guy on the wall in the cell in the Life of Brian. They are comfortable being ruled by their betters.
        "Make England Great Again"
        "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
        validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
        "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post



          Nope.
          I may not care for the Saudis, but the Iranians are the threat.
          As such, it is in our best interests to support them the Saudis.

          Stalin killed millions of his own people and in conquered nations and despite this, it remained in our best interest to ally with him to defeat the greater threat.
          What about don't messing with countries on the opposite side of the world ? It's US which has bases near Iran and attacked Iranian neighbors. Not the other way around.
          There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Emtos View Post

            What about don't messing with countries on the opposite side of the world ? It's US which has bases near Iran and attacked Iranian neighbors. Not the other way around.


            Ok, I agree. The US should stop attacking civilian oil tankers in the gulf.
            Oh wait, that’s the Iranians. Never mind.
            Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

            Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post



              Ok, I agree. The US should stop attacking civilian oil tankers in the gulf.
              Oh wait, that’s the Iranians. Never mind.
              Last time when it happened was in 80-s when US was helping Irak and shot down an Iranian airliner.
              There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Skoblin View Post
                Well, this would point to some sort of quandary. On the one hand, you lament that "our supposed Allies in Europe continue to do business with Iran". On the other hand, you would be uncomfortable to have them as allies anyway, since they don't share Anglo-American common law and philosophical history. So, if you would be uncomfortable with them as allies in the first place, why complain when they don't act as allies in the second?
                I would say the globalist are being penny wise and pound foolish. The countries and individuals you mentioned earlier as potential allies of Trump may not be included amongst the globalists but they also have relatively less international influence.

                Obama's Iranian deal was having your cake and eating it too. It was not going to prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons because it was just a bandaid. Sure it may have delayed it and the world gets the benefit of more oil and markets but those benefits are short term. Plus for Trump severe trade restrictions ties in with a broader strategy to deal with China and Russia by restricting there access to Iranian oil in the case of China and highlighting the dangers of becoming dependent on hostile states for energy in the case of Russia.

                The U.S. has an interest in oil where every it is traded because of petrol dollars. That in part explains the U.S. obsession with the gulf states and what people call the never-ending war. So even if the U.S. is now the largest producer of petroleum it is in it's interest to maintain the status quo. Europe, China, South Korea, and India however have a greater interest in Iranian imports directly.

                Who you are allies with is always complicated because of competing interests. When I said Trump's allies that is a different question than national allies as a matter of domestic politics.

                I'm sorry this response isn't more coherent but some brevity is necessary because of the format.
                Last edited by wolfhnd; 25 Jun 19, 08:58.
                We hunt the hunters

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post

                  Saudis are a threat too by looking the other way at Saudi Citizens funding extremists and terrorists on the rest of the world around them.
                  They’re fortunate to be a major supplier of vital resources that the world economies need the US doesn’t consider going to war with them and haven’t dealt with the Saudis as strongly as they treat the extremist government in Iran.
                  The Saudi grip on power is sustained through their partnership with the Wahhabists, the most fanatical of the extremist Islamists. Outfits like ISIL and the Taliban are Girl Scouts compared to them. Wahhabism is locked into the Third Century purist view of Allah's teachings.

                  Wahhabi Doctrines

                  In contrast to popular superstitions, al-Wahhab emphasized the unity of God (tawhid). This focus on absolute monotheism lead to him and his followers being referred to as muwahiddun, or “unitarians.” He denounced everything else as heretical innovation, or bida. Al-Wahhab was further dismayed at the widespread laxity in adhering to traditional Islamic laws: Questionable practices like the ones above were allowed to continue, whereas the religious devotions that Islam did require were being ignored.

                  This created indifference to the plight of widows and orphans, adultery, lack of attention to obligatory prayers, and failure to allocate shares of inheritance fairly to women. Al-Wahhab characterized all this as being typical of jahiliyya, an important term in Islam that refers to the barbarism and state of ignorance that existed prior to the coming of Islam. Al-Wahhab thus identified himself with the Prophet Muhammad and at the same time connected his society with what Muhammad worked to overthrow.

                  Because so many Muslims lived (so he claimed) in jahiliyya, al-Wahhab accused them of not being true Muslims. Only those who followed the strict teachings of al-Wahhab were truly Muslims because only they still followed the path laid out by Allah. Accusing someone of not being a true Muslim is significant because it is forbidden for one Muslim to kill another. But, if someone is not a true Muslim, killing them (in war or in an act of terrorism) becomes licit.

                  Wahhabi religious leaders reject any reinterpretation of the Qur’an when it comes to issues settled by the earliest Muslims. Wahhabists thus oppose the 19th- and 20th-century Muslim reform movements, which reinterpreted aspects of Islamic law in order to bring it closer to standards set by the West, particularly with regards to topics like gender relations, family law, personal autonomy, and participatory democracy.
                  Last edited by Mountain Man; 25 Jun 19, 10:50.
                  Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                    Last time when it happened was in 80-s when US was helping Irak and shot down an Iranian airliner.
                    The US shot down an Iranian airliner in the course of an attack by Iranian gunboats.
                    Weird you would leave out almost all the relevant facts while trying to suggest the US helped Iraq.
                    The downing of the jetliner, an Iran Air Airbus A300, took place over the Strait of Hormuz, at the southern end of the gulf, while the Vincennes was being engaged by Iranian gunboats. U.S. Issues Regrets

                    https://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/04/w...rted-dead.html

                    It almost looks like the Iranians regularly attack shipping in the gulf.
                    Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                    Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post

                      The US shot down an Iranian airliner in the course of an attack by Iranian gunboats.
                      Weird you would leave out almost all the relevant facts while trying to suggest the US helped Iraq.
                      The downing of the jetliner, an Iran Air Airbus A300, took place over the Strait of Hormuz, at the southern end of the gulf, while the Vincennes was being engaged by Iranian gunboats. U.S. Issues Regrets

                      https://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/04/w...rted-dead.html

                      It almost looks like the Iranians regularly attack shipping in the gulf.
                      It happened in Iranian territorial waters.

                      Iran was fighting a total war against Iraq which was supported by US. They did exactly what the Iraqi did but in muc lesser proportions.

                      But you conveniently forgot about this.
                      There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                        It happened in Iranian territorial waters.

                        Iran was fighting a total war against Iraq which was supported by US. They did exactly what the Iraqi did but in muc lesser proportions.

                        But you conveniently forgot about this.
                        Why would the U.S. not take Iran at it's word and accept that the Iranian goal is death to the great Satan. That sounds a lot like a declaration of total war to me. Fortunately for Iran the U.S. is not a crazy theocracy.

                        What you are forgetting is that American support for Iraq came grudgingly after it appeared Iran was winning the war. If Iran had overrun Iraq they would have been emboldened to threaten the entire region especially their religious enemies Saudi Arabia and Israel. U.S. support for Iraq was just sufficient in theory to maintain the existing borders in the region without making Iraq strong enough to threaten it's neighbors and leading to millions of additional deaths.
                        We hunt the hunters

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          USA threatened plenty states with destruction of reprisals of some kind. Should they declare war on US ?

                          The problem is that US messes with a region completely alien with US traditions and logic. There is no surprise if it fires back.
                          There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                            USA threatened plenty states with destruction of reprisals of some kind. Should they declare war on US ?

                            The problem is that US messes with a region completely alien with US traditions and logic. There is no surprise if it fires back.
                            They do what they want the US has only tried importing their system of government in the region during the last Iraq war that failed.
                            Keeping the peace and stability in the region remains the goal for the US and allies for the economic need.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                              Trump's resistance to the world order makes him something of a business Napoleon.
                              Comments such as this are not only ahistorical but reveal a shocking ignorance of history and historical figures.

                              In short, the comment is an insult to Napoleon and a great compliment to Trump, and one which he does not deserve.

                              We are not now that strength which in old days
                              Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                              Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                              To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Massena View Post

                                Comments such as this are not only ahistorical but reveal a shocking ignorance of history and historical figures.

                                In short, the comment is an insult to Napoleon and a great compliment to Trump, and one which he does not deserve.
                                You have zero imagination, sense of humor or cannot understand a figure of speech. How could such a statement be historical?

                                Conparing someone to Napoleon is no compliment by the way.
                                We hunt the hunters

                                Comment

                                Latest Topics

                                Collapse

                                Working...
                                X