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  • #31
    Originally posted by ljadw View Post

    This is not correct :following Ernst-Georg Beck, a German scientist,it was 440 ppm in 1820 and 1940. In AD 500 it was more than 400 ppm.
    Source : Understanding the global warming hoax (Leo Johnson ) Myth 29 .
    Understanding the Global Warming Hoax: Expanded and Updated Paperback – March 31, 2009

    by Leo Johnson (Author)
    ...
    IS GLOBAL WARMING A HOAX? Isn't it time you read the facts? The propaganda of man-made global warming has been promoted by those with a political agenda by suppressing the truth and spreading fear. In this effort they have recruited academics, media, environmental groups, governments, the United Nations, even religions. Scientific evidence supporting man-made global warming has now been investigated by scientists and found to be baseless. Examination of the data has revealed the theory of climate change for the propaganda it is, derived from erroneous data, junk science, even scientific fraud. Now, for the first time, the American people have available to them an honest discussion of man-made global warming and climate change that is easily understood by those without a scientific background. The Layman's Guide describes in easily understood language the science refuting claims of climatic catastrophe resulting from the burning of fossil fuels. Using well-documented scientific facts, the Layman's Guide exposes the global warming hoax as an authoritarian assault on individual freedom.
    ...
    https://www.amazon.com/Understanding.../dp/1934956139

    Online PDF;
    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x55xvms

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

      Or are "people" throwing out codswallops of misquotes and misinterpretations?
      g DAVID.TRY to focus, please on the article in question.

      The author of the quoted blog form the Daily wire claims the USGS survey as her source for her article.
      the survey does NOT support any of the points she raised.
      feel free to read the USGS survey. I keep posting the links.
      Last edited by marktwain; 19 Jun 19, 23:35.
      The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by marktwain View Post

        g DAVID.TRY to focus, please on the article in question.

        The author of the quoted blog form the Daily wire claims the USGS survey as her source for her article.
        the survey does NOT support any of the points she raised.
        feel free to read the USGS survey. I keep posting the links.
        Mark T., I'm not seeing those links in any posts on this thread so if you can direct me so where else...

        I do recall hearing the story on the radio about the signs, though, which were claiming a rather premature date for the glaciers to disappear. Perhaps I misunderstood the jab your casting, or was it something in the staff deleted posts.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

          Mark T., I'm not seeing those links in any posts on this thread so if you can direct me so where else...

          I do recall hearing the story on the radio about the signs, though, which were claiming a rather premature date for the glaciers to disappear. Perhaps I misunderstood the jab your casting, or was it something in the staff deleted posts.
          https://www.usgs.gov/centers/norock/...center_objects
          The USGS has a lot of studies on glaciers in America. while it has been .a while since I was in Glacier National |park, your USDNPS
          is a pretty dedicated group with a proud professional history
          The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by marktwain View Post

            https://www.usgs.gov/centers/norock/...center_objects
            The USGS has a lot of studies on glaciers in America. while it has been .a while since I was in Glacier National |park, your USDNPS
            is a pretty dedicated group with a proud professional history
            Thanks. This helps underscore two items and suggests you and Snowshoveler were arguing at cross purpose and different subjects. First, this interesting excerpt from that USGS link-article;
            ...
            WHAT IS A GLACIER? A glacier is a body of snow and ice of sufficient size and mass to move under its own weight. Glacier movement may be detected by the presence of crevasses, cracks that form in the ice as the glacier moves. In Glacier National Park (GNP), USGS scientists define glaciers according to the commonly accepted guideline in which a body of ice has an area of at least 0 .1 km2 (100,000 m2), or about 25 acres. Below this size, the ice is generally stagnant and does not move, unless it is on a steep slope. Glaciers are dynamic , changing in response to temperature and precipitation. A glacier forms when winter snowfall exceeds summer melting. Glaciers retreat when melting outpaces accumulation of new snow.

            While the glaciers that carved GNP’s majestic peaks were part of a glaciation that ended about 12,000 years ago, the relatively small alpine glaciers that cling to mountainsides today are considered geologically new, having formed about 7,000 thousand years ago. These glaciers grew substantially during the Little Ice Age (LIA) that began around 1400 AD and reached their maximum size at the end of the LIA around 1850 AD. Their maximum sizes can be inferred from the mounds of rock and soil left behind, known as moraines. Aerial photography reveals moraines of over 150 glaciers that existed in Glacier National park at the end of the LIA. In 2015, only 26 active named glaciers remain.
            ....

            WHAT IS THE STATUS OF GLACIERS AT GLACIER NATIONAL PARK?

            In 2017, the USGS published a time series analysis of the glacier margins of the named glaciers of Glacier National Park . The areas measured are from 1966, 1998, 2005 and 2015/2016, marking approximately 50 years of change in glacier area. Scientists used aerial photography and satellite imagery to measure the perimeters of the glaciers in late summer when seasonal snow had melted to reveal the extent of the glacial ice. The data table shows that all glaciers have been reduced in area since 1966 with some glaciers having been reduced by as much as 85% by 2015. The average area reduction over the approximately 50-year period is 39%. Currently, only 26 glaciers are larger than 0.1 square kilometers (25 acres) which is used as a guideline for deciding if bodies of ice are large enough to be considered glaciers.
            ....
            https://www.usgs.gov/centers/norock/...center_objects
            ...

            So a couple pointers here and hopefully I don't have to "translate" all that I've highlighted in red.

            1. Glaciers are CONSTANTLY either growing or shrinking. Reflecting that Climate is never stagnant; climate is always either warming or cooling.

            2. Once a glacier is smaller than 25 acres in size it is no longer considered, defined as a glacier. So once a body of ice and snow shrinks to say 24 acres or less that "glacier" is "gone". Could we be quibbling over semantics here?

            3. There was a Little Ice Age starting about 600+ years ago, Climate COOLING ~ glaciers growing even more; then about 170 years ago glacier growth stopped and shrinkage started because Climate WARMING. This is about 30 years before that benchmark number of 280ppm for CO2 in 1880 that many gorebots treat as a holy grail of desired amount, and supposed majik threshold when $hit happens due to CO2 increase beyond. And it's all human's fault. Yet ....

            4. These glaciers at GNP only started to form about 7,000 years ago (That "thousand" after 7,000 in article is redundant/typo). Climate must have been too warm before then, since there were no glaciers, and of course this would have to be the fault of we humans, even though we barely had started any civilizations by then, and had no "Industrial Age" yet.

            5. There were "glaciers" there up until about 12,000 years ago, which carved out those peaks and valleys as they slid along and melted. These were a mile or more thick and had been there for tens of thousands of years, until the climate started warming, enough to melt all that ice. Obviously, once again we can blame this on humans (anthropogenic), and likely caused by the tens of thousands of humans then existing, running around wearing animal skins and furs, using their chipped flint pointy weapons to slaughter all the mastodons, sabre-toothed tigers, and other huge fauna that went extinct back then.

            Or maybe it's the fault of the Atlantians. Per genome/DNA research our current genetic version of homo sapiens has only been around for about 200-300,000 years and since Ice Ages have been coming and going for hundreds of millions of years, must have been the fault of the people of Atlantis using their advanced technologies to muck up the climate all that time before we humans could show up and take over that task from them.

            The more I look into this Anthropogenic(human caused) Climate Change/Anthropogenic Global Warming myth, the sillier and more absurd it becomes ...

            This post has gotten a bit long, will do a Part Two to cover Snowshoveler's points;

            Comment


            • #36
              Part Two:
              As I understand things, Snowshoveler was referring to this;

              Glacier National Park Quietly Removes Its 'Gone by 2020' Signs ...
              https://wattsupwiththat.com/.../glacier-national-park-quietly-removes-its-gone-by-202...


              National Parks Quietly Toss Signs Saying Glaciers ‘Will Be Gone’ By 2020 (They’re Growing)
              https://www.climatedepot.com/2019/06...heyre-growing/

              Oh, So That's Why The 'Glaciers Will Be Gone In 2020' Sign Has Been Removed At A National Park
              https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...-at-a-n2547957

              Glacier National Park Quietly Ditches Signs Saying Glaciers Will ‘All Be Gone’ By 2020
              https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...-gone-by-2020/

              The NPS Removes all “Glaciers Gone by 2020” signs at Glacier National Park, Montana after “Larger-than-Average Snowfall over Several Winters”
              https://electroverse.net/the-nps-rem...veral-winters/

              Glacier National Park Quietly Removes Its "Gone By 2020" Signs
              https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...one-2020-signs

              National park ditches signs saying glaciers will be gone by 2020
              https://hotair.com/archives/2019/06/...ill-gone-2020/

              National Parks Toss Signs Warning Of Melting Glaciers After Glaciers Fail To Melt
              https://www.dailywire.com/news/48287...-emily-zanotti

              ETC. ;
              https://www.google.com/search?client...+by+2020+signs

              Notice that many of the above mention that the glaciers have started to "grow" in recent years ...






              Comment


              • #37
                So, all this talk about glaciers has reminded me of another anecdote, the saga of Glacier Girl;
                ...
                Glacier Girl: The Back Story

                How it got trapped in the ice, and how it got out


                Read more at https://www.airspacemag.com/history-...x9bjlEePXG1.99
                ...

                The journey on which the world’s most famous fighter airplane is now embarked is really the third leg in a trip that started 65 years ago, when Great Britain was holding off Nazi Germany and the United States was rushing warplanes to British airfields. In 1942, Glacier Girl was a brand new Lockheed P-38F, one of hundreds of airplanes sent as part of U.S. Army Air Force had its pilots base-hop across the North Atlantic from Maine to Scotland. Not all squadrons made it across, and this particular one was forced down by weather to an emergency landing on an ice cap in Greenland. For Glacier Girl, that was leg one.

                The following story, originally published in the January 1993 issue of Air & Space/ Smithsonian, recounts adventures during the second leg of the journey, a 22-year slog through recovery and restoration that couldn’t have been completed without the ingenuity, stamina, and fortune of a Roy Shoffner, a Kentucky businessman, named the P-38 “Glacier Girl” and began to plan the completion of its mission.

                Glacier Girl’'s new owner Rod Lewis, a pilot and president of the Lewis Energy Group in San Antonio, Texas, bought the fighter last year and immediately started preparations for the third leg of the journey. Lewis owns seven other warbirds, including Rare Bear, a Grumman F8F Bearcat racer, which set the closed-course world speed record of 528.3 mph in 1989. “I’m interested in preserving the history and heritage,” he says. He was committed to having Glacier Girl complete the mission even though, he acknowledges, “this trip is going to cost some bucks.”

                “Besides that,” he continues, “it’s a hell of an adventure. I’ve been drilling oil and gas wells since 1982, so I guess I was looking for the equivalent experience in aviation.” Lewis will fly his Pilatus PC-12 on the journey, while warbird expert Steve Hinton flies Glacier Girl and airshow performer Ed Shipley flies a restored North American P-51. The group flew a scouting expedition earlier this month to locate alternate airfields in case the weather once again forces an unplanned landing. “In that part of the world, weather changes are quick and constant,” Lewis says. “We went by some old World War II airfields that had gravel runways and still had fuel barrels sitting around.” He expects to make six to eight stops a long the way. “You know, it wears you out flying these old airplanes. We can cross 1,000 miles if we need to.”

                Read more at https://www.airspacemag.com/history-...x9bjlEePXG1.99
                ...

                While the ACC/AGW "gorebots" cry that Greenland's ice and glaciers are melting, Glacier Girl and the rest of the "Lost Squadron" had between 250-300 feet of ice pile atop them before she was pulled out 50 years later in 1992. IIRC it takes about 10-12 inches of snow to pack down into an inch of ice, so a bit of snow fell there in those fifty years.

                Some other links, including one on efforts to recover a second P-38.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glacier_Girl

                15 Unbelievable Pictures From P-38 Glacier Girl You’ve Never Seen Before
                https://www.warhistoryonline.com/mil...-pictures.html

                Glacier Girl survives its own ice age
                https://generalaviationnews.com/2018...s-own-ice-age/

                http://p38assn.org/glaciergirl/index.htm

                https://www.popularmechanics.com/fli...-in-greenland/


                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                  Part Two:
                  As I understand things, Snowshoveler was referring to this;

                  Glacier National Park Quietly Removes Its 'Gone by 2020' Signs ...
                  https://wattsupwiththat.com/.../glacier-national-park-quietly-removes-its-gone-by-202...


                  National Parks Quietly Toss Signs Saying Glaciers ‘Will Be Gone’ By 2020 (They’re Growing)
                  https://www.climatedepot.com/2019/06...heyre-growing/

                  Oh, So That's Why The 'Glaciers Will Be Gone In 2020' Sign Has Been Removed At A National Park
                  https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...-at-a-n2547957

                  Glacier National Park Quietly Ditches Signs Saying Glaciers Will ‘All Be Gone’ By 2020
                  https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...-gone-by-2020/

                  The NPS Removes all “Glaciers Gone by 2020” signs at Glacier National Park, Montana after “Larger-than-Average Snowfall over Several Winters”
                  https://electroverse.net/the-nps-rem...veral-winters/

                  Glacier National Park Quietly Removes Its "Gone By 2020" Signs
                  https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...one-2020-signs

                  National park ditches signs saying glaciers will be gone by 2020
                  https://hotair.com/archives/2019/06/...ill-gone-2020/

                  National Parks Toss Signs Warning Of Melting Glaciers After Glaciers Fail To Melt
                  https://www.dailywire.com/news/48287...-emily-zanotti

                  ETC. ;
                  https://www.google.com/search?client...+by+2020+signs

                  Notice that many of the above mention that the glaciers have started to "grow" in recent years ...





                  G David:
                  The USGS survey explains , quite clearly, how a mountain glacier can retreat , shrink, melt, into it's 'core' in a col 0r cirque and be shielded by aretes . this allows the core to grow slightly , in certain years,BUT NOT EXPAND OUT OF ITS CIRQUE.

                  II have the impression, form the prev. discussion, that a lot of posters were grasping at this phenomenon as proof that the 'crats' got the facts wrong. Nothing could be further from the truth.
                  The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by marktwain View Post

                    G David:
                    The USGS survey explains , quite clearly, how a mountain glacier can retreat , shrink, melt, into it's 'core' in a col 0r cirque and be shielded by aretes . this allows the core to grow slightly , in certain years,BUT NOT EXPAND OUT OF ITS CIRQUE.

                    II have the impression, form the prev. discussion, that a lot of posters were grasping at this phenomenon as proof that the 'crats' got the facts wrong. Nothing could be further from the truth.
                    Are they or aren’t they going to melt next year as predicted?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by marktwain View Post

                      G David:
                      The USGS survey explains , quite clearly, how a mountain glacier can retreat , shrink, melt, into it's 'core' in a col 0r cirque and be shielded by aretes . this allows the core to grow slightly , in certain years,BUT NOT EXPAND OUT OF ITS CIRQUE.

                      II have the impression, form the prev. discussion, that a lot of posters were grasping at this phenomenon as proof that the 'crats' got the facts wrong.
                      Its called cherry picking the facts
                      Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                      Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post

                        Are they or aren’t they going to melt next year as predicted?
                        The signs predicted that the glaciers would be not viewable from certain viewing points. since the park has dropped form 146 to 26 glaciers, yep- there is bound to be some glacier melt.

                        It is a wonderful National park, even without the signage.
                        The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by marktwain View Post

                          The signs predicted that the glaciers would be not viewable from certain viewing points. since the park has dropped form 146 to 26 glaciers, yep- there is bound to be some glacier melt.

                          It is a wonderful National park, even without the signage.
                          They only said they’d be gone by 2020.

                          1C0D661C-263C-4EA2-887C-CE53C186802E.jpeg

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Actually, the sign says
                            " computer models predict"
                            the USGS site explains this in depth.It is really worthy reading...

                            OTOH, https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...one-2020-signs
                            is best described as 'special',

                            The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by marktwain View Post
                              Actually, the sign says
                              " computer models predict"
                              the USGS site explains this in depth.It is really worthy reading...

                              OTOH, https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...one-2020-signs
                              is best described as 'special',
                              No it’s just yet another false prediction by the chicken littles you’re just moving the goalposts.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post

                                No it’s just yet another false prediction by the chicken littles you’re just moving the goalposts.
                                Uh huh....

                                The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

                                Comment

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