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Deadly Border Shootout

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  • Snowygerry
    replied
    Here's the formula :

    The following equation is used to calculate the GDP: GDP = C + I + G + (X – M) or GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government investment + government spending + (exports – imports). ... It transforms the money-value measure, nominal GDP, into an index for quantity of total output.
    Just saying "no" repeatedly does not an argument make

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  • Mountain Man
    replied
    [QUOTE=Snowygerry;n5122543]

    The cost is is an income elsewhere.

    Medical programs for example are income for doctors, clinics, pharmaceutical companies etc. and thus add to GDP.
    No - because the medical care is essentially a burden on the taxpayers. The illegals cant afford it to begin with.

    Welfare is personal income and once spent, also adds to GDP.
    No, again, because welfare comes out of the taxpayers' pockets. It's not "income" for illegals but a free gift that is never repaid.

    Money, received from wellfare, sent to Mexico would be the exception - if spent there it would obviously add to Mexican GDP, while just being a cost in the US.

    But if they work for their money, whatever they produce in the US, is still added to US GDP, regardless of what they do with their income.

    And no, yet again.

    A FAIR study in 2017 found illegal immigrants are a net consumer of taxpayer benefits worth more than $100 billion a year, not including the cost of enforcing the border.

    While federal benefits are supposed to be off limits, in practice many are not. More than 25,000 undocumented workers receive subsidized housing, according to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. Children receive free education and most qualify for English lessons and free school breakfast and lunch.

    Illegal immigrants do not qualify for Obamacare but under federal law, hospitals and clinics are required to provide urgent medical care without regard to legal status. Pregnant women are entitled to prenatal and postpartum care under the Women, Infants and Children program. Infant delivery costs are paid for by Medicaid. A study in the Journal of the American Medical Association found a federal-state immigrant insurance program cost $2 billion a year in emergency treatment, not including the $1.24 billion in infant delivery expenses.

    Illegal immigrants are not entitled to food stamps, but families with U.S.-born children are. According to the Center for Immigration Studies, 31% of such families use the SNAP program and more than 50% of Central American families in the U.S. use at least one welfare program.
    And we're paying for all of this.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/the-cost-...illions-a-year
    Last edited by Mountain Man; 13 Jun 19, 12:11.

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  • Mountain Man
    replied
    deleted by poster
    Last edited by Mountain Man; 13 Jun 19, 12:06.

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  • TacCovert4
    replied
    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

    True - a lot of undesirable things add to GDP, nevertheless they do increase what is commonly used as the measure of "economic growth"..

    Not all growth is good growth
    So we would want to NOT do idiotic things like this. Ok. Just making sure.

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  • Snowygerry
    replied
    Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
    I would counterpoint that adding to GDP through debt is not a net plus. We are already in deficit spending, so any of these 'benefits' added would be directly adding to deficit spending. It's not creating income ex nihilo, it is adding to debt, and not at a 1-1 ratio either, as for every dollar given out you have additional funding spent on the bureaucracy to do same, interest on the debt, etc.
    True - a lot of undesirable things add to GDP, nevertheless they do increase what is commonly used as the measure of "economic growth"..

    Not all growth is good growth

    Kennedy knew..

    GDP, he said, “measures neither our wit nor our courage, neither our wisdom nor our learning, neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country, it measures everything in short, except that which makes life worthwhile.”
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/opini...b056a8f598db31

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  • TacCovert4
    replied
    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

    The cost is is an income elsewhere.

    Medical programs for example are income for doctors, clinics, pharmaceutical companies etc. and thus add to GDP.

    Welfare is personal income and once spent, also adds to GDP.


    Money, received from wellfare, sent to Mexico would be the exception - if spent there it would obviously add to Mexican GDP, while just being a cost in the US.

    But if they work for their money, whatever they produce in the US, is still added to US GDP, regardless of what they do with their income.



    That's not very likely..typical low income is spent on food, rent, utilities and healthcare mostly.
    I would counterpoint that adding to GDP through debt is not a net plus. We are already in deficit spending, so any of these 'benefits' added would be directly adding to deficit spending. It's not creating income ex nihilo, it is adding to debt, and not at a 1-1 ratio either, as for every dollar given out you have additional funding spent on the bureaucracy to do same, interest on the debt, etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • Snowygerry
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    No, they do not. It has been clearly shown that they cost far more in terms of medical and social welfare programs, educational costs and other adverse effects than they ever bring in, and you forgot that most of the money they earn is sent back to Mexico. It's Mexico's number 2 source of foreign income.
    The cost is is an income elsewhere.

    Medical programs for example are income for doctors, clinics, pharmaceutical companies etc. and thus add to GDP.

    Welfare is personal income and once spent, also adds to GDP.

    Money, received from wellfare, sent to Mexico would be the exception - if spent there it would obviously add to Mexican GDP, while just being a cost in the US.

    But if they work for their money, whatever they produce in the US, is still added to US GDP, regardless of what they do with their income.

    most of the money they earn is sent back to Mexico.
    That's not very likely..typical low income is spent on food, rent, utilities and healthcare mostly.
    Last edited by Snowygerry; 13 Jun 19, 02:58.

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  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

    Actually they contribute to your growing GDP - everything does
    No, they do not. It has been clearly shown that they cost far more in terms of medical and social welfare programs, educational costs and other adverse effects than they ever bring in, and you forgot that most of the money they earn is sent back to Mexico. It's Mexico's number 2 source of foreign income.

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  • Snowygerry
    replied
    Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
    (…)
    2. incoming illegals are hurting our economy.
    Actually they contribute to your growing GDP - everything does

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  • Jose50
    replied
    Definition of Invasion:

    1 : an act of invading especially : incursion of an army for conquest or plunder

    2 : the incoming or spread of something usually hurtful


    1. incoming illegals are plundering our welfare system.
    2. incoming illegals are hurting our economy.


    So, yeah, it's an invasion.

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  • Massena
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    Except that we are NOT talking abut "immigration", but about an unsanctioned invasion of poor people and those who cannot cope. Immigration is a legal process entirely controlled by the government with established quotas, and can be turned on or off at will.
    Interesting definition from a biased viewpoint.

    Webster's dictionary:
    Definition of immigration:

    : an act or instance of immigrating

    specifically : travel into a country for the purpose of permanent residence there

    Definition of Invasion:


    1 : an act of invading especially : incursion of an army for conquest or plunder

    2 : the incoming or spread of something usually hurtful

    So, you're wrong twice over.





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  • Snowygerry
    replied
    Not unexpected - here we find that many people arrested for trying to smuggle migrants into Britain, are Brits.

    Makes sense - if you want someone to smuggle someone or something into the US, you''d hire a US American to do it, not a Mexican.

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  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by Bwaha View Post

    It's all about resistance to Trump. He's the only president to give a hoot. I blame old Ronnie for our present troubles. He did the first amnesty. It's been downhill ever since.
    Yes, it has. Nancy must have read the stars wrong on that one.

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  • Bwaha
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    Except that we are NOT talking abut "immigration", but about an unsanctioned invasion of poor people and those who cannot cope. Immigration is a legal process entirely controlled by the government with established quotas, and can be turned on or off at will.

    We are making very little effort to actually stop the invasion of illegals, thanks to the caveman mentality of Democrats.
    It's all about resistance to Trump. He's the only president to give a hoot. I blame old Ronnie for our present troubles. He did the first amnesty. It's been downhill ever since.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
    Open borders create humanitarian crisis. California is the poster child for what happens when you invite third world people to a place where they cannot thrive. It is immoral to encourage people to make the dangerous journey to where they not only may not thrive but where they are often exploited. Even legal immigration often deprives the donor county of talent they desperately need.

    Whatever the horrors are people are fleeing those conditions cannot resolved by migration. A strong border defense is a symbolic gesture that ends decades of hypocrisy on the part of the left and right which talked about protecting domestic labor while quietly encouraging the importation of cheap foreign labor disrupting the real wealth tax base

    We are now near the end of are ability to finance national debt, our infrastructure is collapsing, welfare has become a lifestyle, medical systems are in a crisis, and education is failing. The stress of immigration may be the straw that breaks the camels back. It isn't going to help anyone if the golden goose is killed.
    Except that we are NOT talking abut "immigration", but about an unsanctioned invasion of poor people and those who cannot cope. Immigration is a legal process entirely controlled by the government with established quotas, and can be turned on or off at will.

    We are making very little effort to actually stop the invasion of illegals, thanks to the caveman mentality of Democrats.

    Leave a comment:

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