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  • #16
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    Except that we are NOT talking abut "immigration", but about an unsanctioned invasion of poor people and those who cannot cope. Immigration is a legal process entirely controlled by the government with established quotas, and can be turned on or off at will.
    Interesting definition from a biased viewpoint.

    Webster's dictionary:
    Definition of immigration:

    : an act or instance of immigrating

    specifically : travel into a country for the purpose of permanent residence there

    Definition of Invasion:


    1 : an act of invading especially : incursion of an army for conquest or plunder

    2 : the incoming or spread of something usually hurtful

    So, you're wrong twice over.





    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

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    • #17
      Definition of Invasion:

      1 : an act of invading especially : incursion of an army for conquest or plunder

      2 : the incoming or spread of something usually hurtful


      1. incoming illegals are plundering our welfare system.
      2. incoming illegals are hurting our economy.


      So, yeah, it's an invasion.
      ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
      IN MARE IN COELO

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
        (…)
        2. incoming illegals are hurting our economy.
        Actually they contribute to your growing GDP - everything does

        High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

          Actually they contribute to your growing GDP - everything does
          No, they do not. It has been clearly shown that they cost far more in terms of medical and social welfare programs, educational costs and other adverse effects than they ever bring in, and you forgot that most of the money they earn is sent back to Mexico. It's Mexico's number 2 source of foreign income.
          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            No, they do not. It has been clearly shown that they cost far more in terms of medical and social welfare programs, educational costs and other adverse effects than they ever bring in, and you forgot that most of the money they earn is sent back to Mexico. It's Mexico's number 2 source of foreign income.
            The cost is is an income elsewhere.

            Medical programs for example are income for doctors, clinics, pharmaceutical companies etc. and thus add to GDP.

            Welfare is personal income and once spent, also adds to GDP.

            Money, received from wellfare, sent to Mexico would be the exception - if spent there it would obviously add to Mexican GDP, while just being a cost in the US.

            But if they work for their money, whatever they produce in the US, is still added to US GDP, regardless of what they do with their income.

            most of the money they earn is sent back to Mexico.
            That's not very likely..typical low income is spent on food, rent, utilities and healthcare mostly.
            Last edited by Snowygerry; 13 Jun 19, 03:58.
            High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

              The cost is is an income elsewhere.

              Medical programs for example are income for doctors, clinics, pharmaceutical companies etc. and thus add to GDP.

              Welfare is personal income and once spent, also adds to GDP.


              Money, received from wellfare, sent to Mexico would be the exception - if spent there it would obviously add to Mexican GDP, while just being a cost in the US.

              But if they work for their money, whatever they produce in the US, is still added to US GDP, regardless of what they do with their income.



              That's not very likely..typical low income is spent on food, rent, utilities and healthcare mostly.
              I would counterpoint that adding to GDP through debt is not a net plus. We are already in deficit spending, so any of these 'benefits' added would be directly adding to deficit spending. It's not creating income ex nihilo, it is adding to debt, and not at a 1-1 ratio either, as for every dollar given out you have additional funding spent on the bureaucracy to do same, interest on the debt, etc.
              Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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              • #22
                Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
                I would counterpoint that adding to GDP through debt is not a net plus. We are already in deficit spending, so any of these 'benefits' added would be directly adding to deficit spending. It's not creating income ex nihilo, it is adding to debt, and not at a 1-1 ratio either, as for every dollar given out you have additional funding spent on the bureaucracy to do same, interest on the debt, etc.
                True - a lot of undesirable things add to GDP, nevertheless they do increase what is commonly used as the measure of "economic growth"..

                Not all growth is good growth

                Kennedy knew..

                GDP, he said, “measures neither our wit nor our courage, neither our wisdom nor our learning, neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country, it measures everything in short, except that which makes life worthwhile.”
                https://www.huffpost.com/entry/opini...b056a8f598db31
                High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

                  True - a lot of undesirable things add to GDP, nevertheless they do increase what is commonly used as the measure of "economic growth"..

                  Not all growth is good growth
                  So we would want to NOT do idiotic things like this. Ok. Just making sure.
                  Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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                  • #24
                    deleted by poster
                    Last edited by Mountain Man; 13 Jun 19, 13:06.
                    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                    • #25
                      [QUOTE=Snowygerry;n5122543]

                      The cost is is an income elsewhere.

                      Medical programs for example are income for doctors, clinics, pharmaceutical companies etc. and thus add to GDP.
                      No - because the medical care is essentially a burden on the taxpayers. The illegals cant afford it to begin with.

                      Welfare is personal income and once spent, also adds to GDP.
                      No, again, because welfare comes out of the taxpayers' pockets. It's not "income" for illegals but a free gift that is never repaid.

                      Money, received from wellfare, sent to Mexico would be the exception - if spent there it would obviously add to Mexican GDP, while just being a cost in the US.

                      But if they work for their money, whatever they produce in the US, is still added to US GDP, regardless of what they do with their income.

                      And no, yet again.

                      A FAIR study in 2017 found illegal immigrants are a net consumer of taxpayer benefits worth more than $100 billion a year, not including the cost of enforcing the border.

                      While federal benefits are supposed to be off limits, in practice many are not. More than 25,000 undocumented workers receive subsidized housing, according to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. Children receive free education and most qualify for English lessons and free school breakfast and lunch.

                      Illegal immigrants do not qualify for Obamacare but under federal law, hospitals and clinics are required to provide urgent medical care without regard to legal status. Pregnant women are entitled to prenatal and postpartum care under the Women, Infants and Children program. Infant delivery costs are paid for by Medicaid. A study in the Journal of the American Medical Association found a federal-state immigrant insurance program cost $2 billion a year in emergency treatment, not including the $1.24 billion in infant delivery expenses.

                      Illegal immigrants are not entitled to food stamps, but families with U.S.-born children are. According to the Center for Immigration Studies, 31% of such families use the SNAP program and more than 50% of Central American families in the U.S. use at least one welfare program.
                      And we're paying for all of this.

                      https://www.foxnews.com/us/the-cost-...illions-a-year
                      Last edited by Mountain Man; 13 Jun 19, 13:11.
                      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                      • #26
                        Here's the formula :

                        The following equation is used to calculate the GDP: GDP = C + I + G + (X – M) or GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government investment + government spending + (exports – imports). ... It transforms the money-value measure, nominal GDP, into an index for quantity of total output.
                        Just saying "no" repeatedly does not an argument make
                        High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

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