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Director Mueller Speaks in Public for the First Time...

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  • #16
    Mueller is just twisting himself into a pretzel trying his best to avoid saying he can't find anything to charge Trump with, and thus INNOCENT. There is no way he can prove a negative anyway and he damn knows it.
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    • #17
      Originally posted by Massena View Post
      '"If we had confidence that the President clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so," Mueller said. "We did not however make a determination as to whether the President did commit a crime."'

      The bottom line is that Mueller could not clear the president of obstruction.
      No, the bottom line is the presumption of innocence.
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      • #18
        Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
        In the US system, is a defendant "innocent until proven guilty," or is a defendant "not guilty until proven guilty"? In Scotland a jury can come back with a verdict of "not proven": insufficient evidence to support a guilty verdict and any subsequent sentence, but the jury thinks the defendant guilty anyway. If the special counsel cannot recommend charges be filed due to insufficient evidence, then isn't that the end of his story? In the US, isn't "not guilty" the same as "innocent"?
        The problem is that you can't determine guilt or innocence without a trial to bring out the actual facts, and you can't have a trial without charges. Since the DOJ won't file charges based on long standing policy, we're stuck in a catch 22.

        According to the report, there is enough evidence that if he were a normal person he would have been charged with an obstruction charge.

        It never ceases to amaze me why Trump deemed it necessary to interfere with the investigation. He was innocent of conspiracy, or at least they couldn't find enough evidence. If he had just sucked it up, and let the investigation run it's course, we'd be done by now, and the Republicans could have tweaked their nose, and called out everyone. Instead, Trump tried to obstruct the investigation at every turn. It makes no sense.


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        • #19
          The question is; how did Trump obstruct the investigation?
          "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Salinator View Post
            Mueller is just twisting himself into a pretzel trying his best to avoid saying he can't find anything to charge Trump with, and thus INNOCENT. There is no way he can prove a negative anyway and he damn knows it.
            Absolute rubbish. Did you see and hear Mueller today?
            Last edited by Massena; 30 May 19, 07:15.

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            • #21
              ^ Anthrax: maybe the House Judiciary Committee should take up impeachment proceedings against Pres Trump. Then the question becomes why is Speaker Pelosi so reluctant. Does she know that the Mueller report does not provide enough evidence to support a bill of impeachment? Listening to Mueller, it sounds like he's trying to have his cake and eat it too. Either he found enough evidence to support a bill of impeachment -- read bill of indictment -- or he didn't. I'm still trying to figure out which side of the fence he's on.
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              • #22
                Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                The question is; how did Trump obstruct the investigation?
                Read Volume II of the report. It is laid out clearly and logically. The bottom line with obstruction is that Trump was not cleared of wrongdoing.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Massena View Post

                  Read Volume II of the report. It is laid out clearly and logically. The bottom line with obstruction is that Trump was not cleared of wrongdoing.
                  I did read Volume II. I see discussion of it but I don't see action. What are you seeing that shows that Trump obstructed?
                  "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by craven View Post

                    Actually that is incorrect. The standard Mueller used was to find evidence and then present the evidence to be used by congress to do its job.

                    He followed the rule that keeps him from filing charges because that what the DOJ has already said.


                    Only Trump is allowed to order someone to do something and not be accountable for it.

                    How many times have we seen people convicted for trying to hire a hit person. The standard being used by you would invalidate all these cases.
                    Sigh.

                    I'm unfamiliar with this new, undisclosed standard that Mueller was using to investigate allegedly criminal acts that shifts the burden of proof.
                    Could you please identify the standard he was using that presumes guilt and his Mueller's goal was to establish innocence ?

                    Mueller was not conducting an investigation for Congress to do its job, because congress is not charged with law enforcement.
                    That not their job.
                    See Article 1 Section 8
                    Congress writes laws, it does not enforce them.

                    The standard being used by me can be found in the 4th Amendment. It serves to protect everyone, even Trump.
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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                      ^ Anthrax: maybe the House Judiciary Committee should take up impeachment proceedings against Pres Trump. Then the question becomes why is Speaker Pelosi so reluctant. Does she know that the Mueller report does not provide enough evidence to support a bill of impeachment? Listening to Mueller, it sounds like he's trying to have his cake and eat it too. Either he found enough evidence to support a bill of impeachment -- read bill of indictment -- or he didn't. I'm still trying to figure out which side of the fence he's on.


                      Agreed. Why is Pelosi allowing such obvious crimes to go unpunished? Isn't that treason?
                      How is it that she is failing to find all the obvious crimes everyone else can see when they mine Mueller's report for magic words or hidden meanings?

                      If Mueller found evidence of a crime, one wonders why he didn't say so.
                      Since it was not his decision to prosecute, it was not his burden to decide there were laws that prevented prosecution. (unless he was another corrupt hack like Comey)
                      If there was evidence to support a crime, he should have done his job and said so.
                      Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                      Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Massena View Post
                        https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartandhp

                        Four things came out of Mueller's statement today:

                        First, that the Russians deliberately interfered with the US 2016 presidential election and attacked the US political system. And that they hurt one of the candidates.

                        Second, there was insufficient evidence found to charge the Trump campaign with a broader conspiracy (that sounds similar to Director Comey's comments on the Clinton investigation made on 5 July 2016).

                        Third, Mueller stated that if the investigators had confidence that the president did not commit a crime (ie obstruction of justice) it would have said so in the report.

                        Fourth, it is against Department of Justice policy to charge a sitting president.

                        Director Mueller's statement today contradicted the statement and four-page summary provided by AG Barr. And the inability to clear the president, based on the evidence, of obstruction of justice tends to make one believe that the president did, in fact, obstruct justice.
                        Case closed, they had nothing and still don't. Move on and get a life.
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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Massena View Post

                          Read Volume II of the report. It is laid out clearly and logically. The bottom line with obstruction is that Trump was not cleared of wrongdoing.
                          That doesn't make him guilty.
                          My worst jump story:
                          My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                          As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                          No lie.

                          ~
                          "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                          -2 Commando Jumpmaster

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                          • #28
                            Last night while doing some work around the house, I was dialing through the FM stations of my pocket radio (Yes, I still own one and I love it.)...I happened upon a local NPR affiliate that was airing a speech by the one and only Noam Chomsky, talking about his thoughts on current events.

                            I was stunned when he denounced the Russian collusion investigation as an incredibly wasteful effort by the Democrats, saying they were stupid and had idiotically gambled all of their eggs in one basket and now have nothing to show for it.

                            Now, Chomsky is no dummy....but when you consider that within the circles of academic intelligentsia, Noam Chomsky is perhaps as close to a God-like figure one could possibly achieve, this must have been brutal.
                            You'll live, only the best get killed.

                            -General Charles de Gaulle

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                            • #29
                              When your on a daily diet of hating anyone you lose your rationality. Two and a half years the left media has beat the orange man bad drum and some fools believe MSN and CNN whole heartily. If Trump was guilty of anything it'd be at the top of the news.

                              Hell, I'm thinking Muller got a Russian payoff to screw Trump with this just because Trump isn't as soft and squishy like the Dems. Think about it, the Russians want to hinder Trump and make him ineffective. The leftist media is more than willing to carry that torch. We were supposed to be ruled by a highly compromised Hillary who the Russians really did have the dirt on.

                              Also Trump derailed the commie train that the left put this country on. The left just has to be boiling mad that all of Berrys agenda was flushed down the toilet and the people are prospering without Big Brother.
                              Credo quia absurdum.


                              Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

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                              • #30
                                Trump and BREXIT 3 years later and they still won't give up obstructing the will of the people.
                                We hunt the hunters

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