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  • Papadopoulos Survived Clown World

    I have watched several interviews of Papadopoulos. His life was turned upside down by the FBI. Not only was he financially ruined but the stress the government put his family under caused his wife to miscarry. When you realize this could happen to anyone the natural impulse is to demand that the justice system be reformed and the officials involved be investigated.

    The disturbing thing is that the defence the officials offer us is that investigating the investigators will weaken the institutions. If their first instinct is to protect the institutions not adhere to the foundation of principles on which those institutions are supposedly built what good would it do to reform the justice system? If they are willing to play fast and loose with existing law new laws would be meaningless. To be fair most people concerned with the abuse of power only want accountability and are not asking for the institutions themselves to be reformed. The problem is that the FBI was corrupted at conception by it's founder, J Edgar Hoover. The FBI has always abused it's power.

    Any institution that operates in secrecy will be subject to abusing power. Any investigative institution that does not operate in secrecy will have their effectiveness severely handicapped. The suggestion that Congress provide oversight is ludicrous based on the state of the current house judiciary committee. How can a federal agency be reformed by a Congress who is in need of reform itself?

    in a way the above questions are only the tip of the iceberg. Not only was the FBI corrupt in conception but it was incompetent. j Edgar Hoover denied the existence of organized crime. Organized crime is exactly the reason an institution such as the FBI would be created in the first place. How can an institution fight something they refuse to acknowledge the existence of.

    The real question the Papadopoulos story raises is not how politics corrupts institutions but why our institutions look like clown world. I'm cynical enough to believe all institutions are corrupt and have no expectations that it will ever be anything but a constant struggle to minimize that corruption. What I cannot accept is that they should necessarily be incompetent. The clown like attempts to entrap Papadopoulos is a painful reminder of all the other failures of our intelligence agencies.
    We hunt the hunters

  • #2
    Maybe he shouldn't have become involved with the Russians or lied to the FBI about it? He and others are the problem here, not the FBI.
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Massena View Post
      Maybe he shouldn't have become involved with the Russians or lied to the FBI about it? He and others are the problem here, not the FBI.
      I know you are pretty naive but you should at least be a little cynical of this non-sense after the Mueller report found no collusion.

      You should read the statement of offense filled in the Papadopoulos case but I will provide some highlights.

      During his interview with the FBI, defendant PAPADOPOULOS also made false statements in an effort to minimize the extent and importance of his communications with the Professor. For example, defendant PAPADOPOULOS stated that "[the Professor]'s a nothing," that he thought the Professor was "just a guy talk[ing] up connections or something," and that he believed the Professor was "BS'ing to be completely honest with you."
      The FBI has mind readers?

      The only thing you have to know about this setup by the intelligence agencies is that none-other than the left wing rag the New York Times says

      A woman posing as a professor's assistant who had drinks in September 2016 with George Papadopolous , a Trump campaign aide, had been sent by the FBI.
      And of course there is this gem from the Mueller report.

      No documentary evidence, and nothing in the email accounts or other communications facilities reviewed by the Office, shows that Papadopoulos shared this information with the Campaign,
      Without the context Papadopoulos saying his "good friend" the professor and "history making" could just as easily be sarcasm as the way the prosecution interpreted it, are the prosecutors mind readers like the FBI agents?

      The final straw which breaks the FBI's back is Papadopoulos is pushing to have all the evidence against him made public. Doesn't sound like a guilty guy to me
      We hunt the hunters

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
        I have watched several interviews of Papadopoulos. His life was turned upside down by the FBI. Not only was he financially ruined but the stress the government put his family under caused his wife to miscarry. When you realize this could happen to anyone the natural impulse is to demand that the justice system be reformed and the officials involved be investigated.

        The disturbing thing is that the defence the officials offer us is that investigating the investigators will weaken the institutions. If their first instinct is to protect the institutions not adhere to the foundation of principles on which those institutions are supposedly built what good would it do to reform the justice system? If they are willing to play fast and loose with existing law new laws would be meaningless. To be fair most people concerned with the abuse of power only want accountability and are not asking for the institutions themselves to be reformed. The problem is that the FBI was corrupted at conception by it's founder, J Edgar Hoover. The FBI has always abused it's power.

        Any institution that operates in secrecy will be subject to abusing power. Any investigative institution that does not operate in secrecy will have their effectiveness severely handicapped. The suggestion that Congress provide oversight is ludicrous based on the state of the current house judiciary committee. How can a federal agency be reformed by a Congress who is in need of reform itself?

        in a way the above questions are only the tip of the iceberg. Not only was the FBI corrupt in conception but it was incompetent. j Edgar Hoover denied the existence of organized crime. Organized crime is exactly the reason an institution such as the FBI would be created in the first place. How can an institution fight something they refuse to acknowledge the existence of.

        The real question the Papadopoulos story raises is not how politics corrupts institutions but why our institutions look like clown world. I'm cynical enough to believe all institutions are corrupt and have no expectations that it will ever be anything but a constant struggle to minimize that corruption. What I cannot accept is that they should necessarily be incompetent. The clown like attempts to entrap Papadopoulos is a painful reminder of all the other failures of our intelligence agencies.
        Or, to sum it up in less than 2000 words: Who watches the watchers? "No one" is an unacceptable reply.
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

          Or, to sum it up in less than 2000 words: Who watches the watchers? "No one" is an unacceptable reply.
          Goes without saying but what use is it to have watchers like Nadler?
          We hunt the hunters

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
            ....

            The final straw which breaks the FBI's back is Papadopoulos is pushing to have all the evidence against him made public. Doesn't sound like a guilty guy to me
            I wonder if the Dems will raise Hell if THIS one is redacted at all....

            Serioulsy, we have a real problem here.
            The Feds are using some very nasty tactics & heavily corrupt Plea Bargains to get a 97% conviction rate... I mean damn, that's a number North Korea would envy!

            And I have to admit, the Left was right, having such a tremendous portion of the population in Prison is a hideous mistake. But it is not just Druggies and Illegal Intruders.... it is the abuse of Statist Power on a massive scale.
            We are plummeting towards a Soviet America.
            Does anyone care?
            "Why is the Rum gone?"

            -Captain Jack

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post

              I wonder if the Dems will raise Hell if THIS one is redacted at all....

              Serioulsy, we have a real problem here.
              The Feds are using some very nasty tactics & heavily corrupt Plea Bargains to get a 97% conviction rate... I mean damn, that's a number North Korea would envy!

              And I have to admit, the Left was right, having such a tremendous portion of the population in Prison is a hideous mistake. But it is not just Druggies and Illegal Intruders.... it is the abuse of Statist Power on a massive scale.
              We are plummeting towards a Soviet America.
              Does anyone care?
              I have the same thought often but it's like the health care issue, there is no limit to how much law enforcement people may want. The courts are simply swamped and so expensive to operate I don't see an easy solution other than dropping a few crimes from the books?
              We hunt the hunters

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                ...I don't see an easy solution other than dropping a few crimes from the books?
                Try a few million.
                We could have threads for years about all the worthless, stupid or just plain funny laws that are still on the books in this country.

                However, the Legal Class is an entrenched Aristocracy in every sense of the word, and it is the true Achilles Heel that will bring this experiment with Democracy to a grotesque end someday.
                "Why is the Rum gone?"

                -Captain Jack

                Comment


                • #9
                  Incredible. Who spit in your Wheaties this morning?
                  We are not now that strength which in old days
                  Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                  Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                  To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    "I only hire the best people." Huge liar and con artist

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Papadopoulos was a minor player, a pawn if you like, in what was clearly a political class struggle. Whatever you think of Trump the truly frightening thing is the incompetence of Clinton and her supporters. Their failure to entrap Papadopoulos, Clinton's horrible campaign, the failure of the polling organizations, the failure of the media to spin the Russian narrative properly and the likely prospect that the impeachment noise will backfire is the best argument against the bureaucratic state. The evidence of the incompetence of the bureaucratic state dooms the left's dreams in regards to organizations such as the EU. The elites are clearly not very elite.

                      The same problem is evident in non governmental institutions. Despite the fact that conservatives would like to paint the subprime fiasco as a failure of government that does not explain the level of incompetence in the financial sector necessary for events to have transpired as they did. We live in an idiocracy.
                      We hunt the hunters

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                        Papadopoulos was a minor player, a pawn if you like, in what was clearly a political class struggle. Whatever you think of Trump the truly frightening thing is the incompetence of Clinton and her supporters. Their failure to entrap Papadopoulos, Clinton's horrible campaign, the failure of the polling organizations, the failure of the media to spin the Russian narrative properly and the likely prospect that the impeachment noise will backfire is the best argument against the bureaucratic state. The evidence of the incompetence of the bureaucratic state dooms the left's dreams in regards to organizations such as the EU. The elites are clearly not very elite.

                        The same problem is evident in non governmental institutions. Despite the fact that conservatives would like to paint the subprime fiasco as a failure of government that does not explain the level of incompetence in the financial sector necessary for events to have transpired as they did. We live in an idiocracy.
                        More conspiracy theories please. Change your information sources.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post

                          Goes without saying but what use is it to have watchers like Nadler?
                          Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post

                            More conspiracy theories please. Change your information sources.
                            My information sources would of course be your conspiracy theory

                            I never bought into the Trump Russia conspiracy theory which makes me one up on you. More importantly I don't believe that you can point to a "information source" that has presented by position.
                            We hunt the hunters

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post

                              My information sources would of course be your conspiracy theory

                              I never bought into the Trump Russia conspiracy theory which makes me one up on you. More importantly I don't believe that you can point to a "information source" that has presented by position.
                              Read Volume I of the Mueller Report for all of the contact between Trump, et al, and the Russians.
                              We are not now that strength which in old days
                              Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                              Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                              To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                              Comment

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