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Democracy Dies in Darkness

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  • Democracy Dies in Darkness

    Admiral McCraven on threats to American Democracy:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartandhp

  • #2
    More illegal activities in Trumpland:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartandhp

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    • #3
      Why did I know that this would lead me to clickbait? Right, I'm going to just ignore all of your threads.
      Credo quia absurdum.


      Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

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      • #4
        Democracy was tried in Athens and failed, fortunately the people who framed the constitution were better educated than "liberals". It is shocking that anyone who wants to participate in a history forum would be so ignorant of history.
        We hunt the hunters

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
          Why did I know that this would lead me to clickbait? Right, I'm going to just ignore all of your threads.
          I bet your willpower isn't strong enough to do that.
          "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
          - Benjamin Franklin

          The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

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          • #6
            Good thing we are a Republic and not a Democracy, our founders were a lot smarter than the left gives them credit for.
            Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
            Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
              Good thing we are a Republic and not a Democracy, our founders were a lot smarter than the left gives them credit for.
              They were, but their thoughtfulness was undone long ago by the corruption and venality that has overtaken our government.
              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                They were, but their thoughtfulness was undone long ago by the corruption and venality that has overtaken our government.
                No, it wasn't undone, but it's still being tried, mainly by democRats!
                Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                  Good thing we are a Republic and not a Democracy, our founders were a lot smarter than the left gives them credit for.
                  It's the little facts that trip them up!
                  Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Massena View Post
                    Admiral McCraven on threats to American Democracy:

                    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartandhp
                    McCraven : a supporter of Brennan ,the man who lied about waterboarding, who lied about drones, who lied about Trump being a traitor, etc, etc ... McCraven said nothing when Clapper and Brennan tried to prevent Trump to become president, thus McCraven has all reasons ..to remain silent .
                    Besides : the press is not an institution and can not claim to be above criticism .
                    Teddy Roosevelt also attacked the press,but no one said that this was an attack on democracy .
                    Adams, Jefferson, Grant, Wilson,Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson,Nixon, Clinton, Bush jr, Obama they all attacked the press .

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                    • #11
                      Democracy never dies in darkness. Democracy dies in the light, under the siren calls of those claiming to defend democracy from manufactured threats. That is how democracy died in Weimar Germany in 1933, when Hitler convinced the Reichstag deputies to pass the Reichstag Fire decree and the Enabling Act. It is how democracy died in Uruguay in 1973, when the government instituted a civilian-military dictatorship to defend the country against the Tupamaros guerilla movement, despite the fact the movement had already collapsed the year previous. If democracy dies in the US, it will be at the hand of those now advocating censorship of social media in order to "protect the public", those supporting the arrest of journalists who have published material exposing government malfeasance, those warning of nonexistent external and internal threats to democracy, and those who give unqualified support to every statement beginning with the phrase "according to intelligence sources...". In short, if you wish to locate those who are a threat to American democracy, look no further than the Russiagate conspiracy crowd, who would have no problem curtailing civil liberties and enacting anti-democratic "public safety" measures if they were to obtain power.

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                      • #12
                        We have had three generations now who have not experienced how fragile civilization is. Lack of experience has left most people blind to the nature of civilization.

                        There are of course exceptions such as Eastern Europe where the memory of the dystopian Soviet rule and Nazi expansionism remain strong. It seems that that things have to go very wrong before people remember that civilization is isn't easy nor the natural state for the naked ape.

                        The egalitarian instinct that democracy represents has proven to be weaker than the instinct for tribal hierarchy wherever democracy has been tried. Civilization is by it's very nature "unnatural". It requires the tribal instinct to be suppressed but also the egalitarian instinct. In small social structures fairness or equity is maintained by obvious merit. Status is it's own reward and only in times of stress does a tyrannical hierarchy emerge. These small communities tend towards a communist structure of each according to their ability and to each according to their needs. Freeloaders and "free spirits" tend to be brutally suppressed and hierarchy largely ceremonial. Civilization because of complexity creates a constant atmosphere of stress especially democracies which adds another layer of complexity and uncertainty. The "patriarchy" is the natural solution.

                        The patriarchy comes in many forms and need only be male dominated in the abstract. In the abstract it means only a hierarchical social structure. Who sits at the top can be the gods, priests, politicians or a combination thereof. Many hierarchical structures are democratically elected in keeping with tribal egalitarianism. Being democratically selected however makes them no more stable than other tyrannies. We see this in popular movements such as national socialism, Venezuelan socialism, increasingly in South Africa, and the authoritarian nature of the "social justice" movement in Western Countries where the new gods of equity, diversity and inclusion are the "patriarchy".

                        In the natural state mankind prays to their God's for comfort against uncertainty while never giving up their "selfish genetic interests". The "patriarchy" of the benevolent gods and democracy are like all instinctual predispositions fussy logic. Civilization however being outside the natural order of things requires strict logic. Like military logistics it is inherently a cooperative hierarchy of competence. Without meritocracy civilization is impossible.




                        We hunt the hunters

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                          Democracy was tried in Athens and failed, fortunately the people who framed the constitution were better educated than "liberals". It is shocking that anyone who wants to participate in a history forum would be so ignorant of history.
                          Athenian politics was hardly " democratic"
                          The franchise was restricted to a small minority of males- slaves, women, and the Athenian Empire's subjects were excluded from power.
                          The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by marktwain View Post

                            Athenian politics was hardly " democratic"
                            The franchise was restricted to a small minority of males- slaves, women, and the Athenian Empire's subjects were excluded from power.
                            It wasn't exactly meritocratic either :-) The flaw in your logic is the assumption that inclusivity is inherently optimal. My argument is the composition of the mob does little to change the nature of mobs.
                            We hunt the hunters

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post

                              It wasn't exactly meritocratic either :-) The flaw in your logic is the assumption that inclusivity is inherently optimal. My argument is the composition of the mob does little to change the nature of mobs.
                              Was Mark Twain making an argument? It seems to me he was just pointing out a historical fact.

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