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  • So how to stop govermental corruption?

    So we've had the Feds doing the dirty on our people. I don't care if its dems or repugs. We need to get a grip on just about every federal organization. My suggestion is to hold the responsible for their crimes. Lois Lerner, Janet Reno, Eric Holder, ect have violated federal law and got away it. My suggestion is to start out locking up the ones who are criminals, yes that includes Hillary.

    Quite frankly, I believe in the death penalty for crimes committed while employed by the Fed. We have to get a grip on it and make these people refuse to break the law because they'll be afraid of being caught and the penalty. Oh, no pardons at all. This presidential power has been abused by both sides way too often.

    Why this post? Because we need to curb the abuses of the Feds for the generations to follow. So what do you think? Should we institute the Code of Hammurabi for all government officials?

    Yeah, I think we have to have some draconian punishments for these people just to put a real check on their abuses.
    Credo quia absurdum.


    Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

  • #2
    Term limits. I think most of the problems could be solved or in the least ameliorated with term limits. The fact that people in congress and senate have been there for most of their adult lives is completely contrary to what the Founders wanted despite these politicians referring to the Founders all the time.

    Dynastic/careering politics needs a bullet in the head pronto. You look at other countries who do this and say they're undemocratic, yet allow it here.
    You'll live, only the best get killed.

    -General Charles de Gaulle

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
      So we've had the Feds doing the dirty on our people. I don't care if its dems or repugs. We need to get a grip on just about every federal organization. My suggestion is to hold the responsible for their crimes. Lois Lerner, Janet Reno, Eric Holder, ect have violated federal law and got away it. My suggestion is to start out locking up the ones who are criminals, yes that includes Hillary.

      Quite frankly, I believe in the death penalty for crimes committed while employed by the Fed. We have to get a grip on it and make these people refuse to break the law because they'll be afraid of being caught and the penalty. Oh, no pardons at all. This presidential power has been abused by both sides way too often.

      Why this post? Because we need to curb the abuses of the Feds for the generations to follow. So what do you think? Should we institute the Code of Hammurabi for all government officials?

      Yeah, I think we have to have some draconian punishments for these people just to put a real check on their abuses.
      You sound like the French Revolutionary government during the Reign of Terror when innocent and guilty people were both executed on the flimsiest of evidence.

      One of the principals of the legal system is that it is better to let ten guilty people off than convict one innocent person.

      And since Mueller has indicted, prosecuted, and put people in jail for ostensible public corruption, do you want those to get the death penalty also? The punishment should fit the crime.

      Janet Reno, Eric Holder, and Hillary Clinton have not been convicted of any crime. So why should they be locked up? Because they are Democrats? Our Republic does not prosecute political opponents unless they have actually committed a crime. Or, are you suggesting that being a Democrat and not believing as you do is a crime? If that is so, then your suggestion is monstrous.

      Attorney General Barr did commit a crime this past week-lying to Congress which is a felony. Should he be prosecuted and then be given the death penalty?

      Presidential pardons for federal crimes is the law. Do you wish to change that?

      What should be done is to nominate and elect honorable and honest public servants. That wasn't done in 2016 which is why we have a string of scandals, large and small, and the appointment of dishonest cabinet officials who have abused their office. The current turn over rate for cabinet officials is unprecedented, and most have left under a moral cloud. Do you want them to receive the death penalty also?

      And the executive branch is ignoring Congressional oversight and subpoenas, both of which are illegal. What punishment do you want for that?

      Be careful what you wish for.
      Last edited by Massena; 04 May 19, 17:44.
      We are not now that strength which in old days
      Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
      Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
      To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by asterix View Post
        Term limits. I think most of the problems could be solved or in the least ameliorated with term limits. The fact that people in congress and senate have been there for most of their adult lives is completely contrary to what the Founders wanted despite these politicians referring to the Founders all the time.

        Dynastic/careering politics needs a bullet in the head pronto. You look at other countries who do this and say they're undemocratic, yet allow it here.
        What I'm talking about are the ones who aren't elected but hired. The deep state people who get appointed to their positions.
        Credo quia absurdum.


        Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

        Comment


        • #5
          And who, precisely, are 'deep state people'? And since cabinet officials are appointed, do you mean them also?
          We are not now that strength which in old days
          Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
          Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
          To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by asterix View Post
            Term limits. I think most of the problems could be solved or in the least ameliorated with term limits. The fact that people in congress and senate have been there for most of their adult lives is completely contrary to what the Founders wanted despite these politicians referring to the Founders all the time.

            Dynastic/careering politics needs a bullet in the head pronto. You look at other countries who do this and say they're undemocratic, yet allow it here.
            Agree. Term limits would certainly help the situation. Congressmen and presidents were not meant to be professional office holders.
            We are not now that strength which in old days
            Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
            Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
            To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
              So we've had the Feds doing the dirty on our people. I don't care if its dems or repugs. We need to get a grip on just about every federal organization. My suggestion is to hold the responsible for their crimes. Lois Lerner, Janet Reno, Eric Holder, ect have violated federal law and got away it. My suggestion is to start out locking up the ones who are criminals, yes that includes Hillary.

              Quite frankly, I believe in the death penalty for crimes committed while employed by the Fed. We have to get a grip on it and make these people refuse to break the law because they'll be afraid of being caught and the penalty. Oh, no pardons at all. This presidential power has been abused by both sides way too often.

              Why this post? Because we need to curb the abuses of the Feds for the generations to follow. So what do you think? Should we institute the Code of Hammurabi for all government officials?

              Yeah, I think we have to have some draconian punishments for these people just to put a real check on their abuses.
              First kill all the Democrats?
              My worst jump story:
              My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
              As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
              No lie.

              ~
              "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
              -2 Commando Jumpmaster

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Massena View Post
                And who, precisely, are 'deep state people'? And since cabinet officials are appointed, do you mean them also?
                Yep and no more pardons. If you are ignorant of what the deep state is after the last decade you need to get your education improved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state
                Credo quia absurdum.


                Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                Comment


                • #9
                  What is clear is that the latest rash of deep state intrigues was at least partially motivated by the fear that if Clinton was elected she would punish those that investigated her and reward those that helped cover her "crimes".

                  There has never been a time when it was "wise" for civil servants to take on the "deep state" and it has always been the case that our government was full of intrigue.

                  If we subjected most members of congress to the same scrutiny that Trump was subjected to half of them would be in prison. The same is probably true of Athens, Rome and every other democracy that has ever existed. Psychopathic personality traits are common to both business leaders and politician with an estimated 3 percent being actual high functioning psychopaths. Keep in mind that I do not hold psychology to be a science in the strict sense of the word and terms such as psychopathy describe groups of behaviors not actual pathologies.

                  It is extremely difficult in most cases for a whistle-blower to actually introduce any reform to a system. As far as I know the NSA is still "spying" on Americans despite Edward Snowden's leaks. The first whistle-blower law was enacted in 1778 by the continental congress but very few people could name that case or any of the whistle-blowers since then. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel...(naval_officer)

                  The important reforms must be concerning transparency because whistle blower laws are not working. The solution is not things like term limits which only addresses the symptom of hierarchies being naturally tyrannical. For example the current tech giant censorship scandal is almost entirely due to a lack of transparency. The fact that they thought shadow banning was a good solution illustrates how the corruption of institutions emerge not from overt corruption or inherently "evil" players but from a desire to maintain a competitive advantage in a corrupt world. Psychopaths can even be useful as long as you remove their ability to lie. To much empathy has it's own pathological consequences as can be seen in the smothering mother syndrome which is emerging as one of the worst aspects of modern society. We may make fun of safe spaces for young adults at universities but don't even mention that social security may need cuts to make it economically viable or that people need to be responsible for their own health care. We are all corrupt in our own small or large ways.
                  We hunt the hunters

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                  • #10
                    So how to stop governmental corruption?
                    a. stop electing governments
                    b. stop electing human beings
                    there are no other options - corruption is a fact of human nature

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      First, for the purpose of this thread, you need to define 'corruption'. Because from the body of your OP it seems to mean 'using the law in ways I do not approve but nevertheless are legal at the time'.

                      Draconian punishments are counter-productive. Making it a death penalty will not deter anyone, but it will inhibit juries. Punishments seldom deter anyone except honest people.

                      You can't deny pardons.

                      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        What would help a great deal would be term limits for all members of Congress and not just the President. Get rid of the career politicians like Pelosi that are far more concern over gaining more power, as they enrich themselves off of the taxpayers, then doing the work to solve the various problems of the nation.
                        “Breaking News,”

                        “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post
                          What would help a great deal would be term limits for all members of Congress and not just the President. Get rid of the career politicians like Pelosi that are far more concern over gaining more power, as they enrich themselves off of the taxpayers, then doing the work to solve the various problems of the nation.
                          That would not help.

                          What term limits would do, would be to transfer the real power to the career bureaucrats, who would be the only ones with a full understanding of how the system works, while Congress turned into a revolving door.

                          In addition, it would mean that Congressmen would come into office with the attitude that it was just a temp job, just a career step or sideline. Once they secured re-election they wouldn't need to care what the voters want or need because no matter what happened they were leaving at the end of the term.

                          It would also mean that voters would become pretty unimportant, because it wouldn't matter if the voters of a district liked or disliked their rep or senator, they wouldn't get to keep him or her.

                          It would largely render the legislative branch null and void, these removing a third of the checks and balances put into place.
                          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            One of the great things about the Trump administration is that every day we find out what the president is feeling on Twitter. What the Neo Cons and Democrats find unpresidential is honesty. The establishment does not want the curtain pulled back to expose what is underneath the rituals of the high priests exposed. The grand illusion of the "nobility" of the establishment elites cannot survive the light of day.

                            Ask yourself what personality type embraces drama as a substitute for honest interaction without the accoutrements of theatre. Who are the gossips and pearl clutches. Who prefers social networks over hierarchies of competence. Who preferences empathy over conscientiousness. Who believes in instinctual "intelligence". The culture war is as much about innate personality types as political beliefs. The republican party has become the cuckolded partner of the emotionally unstable. The marriage of the Neo Cons and Neo Liberals which was unholy from the beginning has produced spiteful and spoiled bastard children represented by Alexandria Cortez and the like.

                            When chaos and order are out of balance the mandate of heaven is lost.
                            We hunt the hunters

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

                              That would not help.

                              What term limits would do, would be to transfer the real power to the career bureaucrats, who would be the only ones with a full understfessionalanding of how the system works, while Congress turned into a revolving door.

                              In addition, it would mean that Congressmen would come into office with the attitude that it was just a temp job, just a career step or sideline. Once they secured re-election they wouldn't need to care what the voters want or need because no matter what happened they were leaving at the end of the term.

                              It would also mean that voters would become pretty unimportant, because it wouldn't matter if the voters of a district liked or disliked their rep or senator, they wouldn't get to keep him or her.

                              It would largely render the legislative branch null and void, these removing a third of the checks and balances put into place.
                              Exactly, I used to be for term limits as well, but after giving it some thought I changed my mind because of some of the reasons stated above, it would leave the power of government in the hands of the professional bureaucrats which are the problem that the OP is talking about to begin with.
                              Last edited by Trung Si; 05 May 19, 10:08.
                              Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

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