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  • Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

    Where communism is the only and controlling system, it IS the right wing!
    Those opposed to the tyranny of communism are then the Left wing ...
    Communism cannot be the Right Wing.
    There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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    • Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
      List them
      Both stats on executions and Gulag mortality has been available for quite a large time. For political executions the most detailed statistics are provided by O. Mozohin. Gulag stats - pioneering work was made by V. Zemskov as early as in 1989 AFAIR. Two later cornerstone books were the history of Gulag by N. Petrov and a collection of documents selected and published by Petrov and Kokurin.
      As far as Soviet demographic history is concerned the most solid work to date is "Population of the Soviet Union..." by Andreyev, Darskiy and Kharkova (1993). This book has a complete reconstruction of the death rate for the Stalin's period (except 1941-45) which shows quite unequivocally that 60 millions is a complete BS.
      Frankly, I used to expect better from you. Now it appears that everyone in Russia thinks they are required to white-wash the history of communism to be good Russians.
      Calling BS a BS is not whitewashing. And actually, you, my dear American friends, contributed yourself to whitewashing quite a lot. Because after you made grossly inflated figures of Stalin's victims for propaganda purpose during the Cold War, the real numbers discovered from post-Soviet archives already didn't seem that shocking. What is 800 000 executed under Stalin compared with mythical 60 000 000? That's a simple and natural psychological effect of propaganda excesses.

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      • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

        Communism cannot be the Right Wing.
        When communism is in control of government and industry, that is the conservative faction of a nation = Right Wing by definition.
        TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

        Comment


        • Right Wing and Conservatism are different things. Liberals are also Right Wing but certainly not Conservative.
          There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

          Comment


          • Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
            List them, every damned one of them, or no point is made.
            I've remembered that I've posted this curious quote recently:
            https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/f...58#post5078958

            Speaking generally "battles for history" has already ended with a sort of conclusion in Russia. The pubic consensus they produced is that Stalin's purges were bad, Stalin was controversial, and the Soviet Union was good. I don't expect this three-part formula to change dramatically, whatever is your reaction to it.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
              Britain was pretty much a Socialist Democracy that grew post WW 2 until about 1980.
              Something I expected from this picture of poverty and privation:




              Comment


              • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                Off and on there were. But, today most Americans living in "poverty" have it pretty damn good compared to other nations, particularly Socialist / Communist ones.

                43% of all poor households own their home, and their typical house has 3 bedrooms, 1 and 1 1/2 bath, a garage and a covered patio or porch.

                80% have air conditioning

                The average poor American has more living space than people in many cities around the world... and not by just a small amount.

                About 3/4 of all poor in America own a car. About a third have 2 or more cars.

                97% have a color television. Over half have 2 or more televisions

                78% have a DVD or DVR and 62% have cable or satellite service

                89% own a microwave

                Over half have a stereo

                More than a third have a dishwasher.

                America's poor are hardly undernourished either. Obesity is a major problem for American poor. In fact, the average child of a poor family today is one inch taller and 10 pounds heavier than a typical GI in WW 2.

                https://www.heritage.org/poverty-and...overty-america

                So, by world standards, even poor Americans are well off comparatively.


                That is now.

                I was concerned with the Great Depression; commencing in 1929 and persisting for most of the thirties. Can it really be denied that rampant capitalism caused consderable misery throuhout the world following the Wall Street Crash ?





                "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
                Samuel Johnson.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                  The difference is that the Vopo's had to shoot on those who wanted to leave the socialist paradise ,otherwise no one would be left and that border police will have to shoot on those who want to enter capitalist hell to plunder and rape .

                  Question : why are the caravans not going to Venezuela,where there are a lot of empty houses,or to Cuba ,where there are a lot of empty shops ?
                  Dunno. Is that a rhetorical question ?
                  "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
                  Samuel Johnson.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post

                    The new deal a bunch of socialist policies by FDR prevented an economic recovery from happening.
                    An interesting point. So you believe that "the Invisible Hand of the Market" will take care of everything in good time and that Keynesian Economics is an illusion ?
                    "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
                    Samuel Johnson.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post

                      An interesting point. So you believe that "the Invisible Hand of the Market" will take care of everything in good time and that Keynesian Economics is an illusion ?


                      Keynesian economics certainly may help, the problem is that our government only applies half of the approach.
                      Keynesian economics encourage the government increase spending and take on debt when things are bad to help the economy, but then pay off that debt when the economy is going strong.
                      Our government happily increases spending, but then never reduces it or pays down debt.
                      As such, each intervention (arguably) becomes less effective or even meaningless.
                      (See BO's "stimulus" that did none of the things promised)

                      By only doing half of what Keynes recommended, we also (arguably) make things worse the next time around.
                      Some businesses should be allowed to fail.
                      If we prop them up with artificial spending, the eventual crash is even worse.

                      IMO, I think we need to accept that the government cannot legislate prosperity and we need to accept that the economy will have down cycles too.
                      Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                      Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                        Those aren't Liberal achievements. Those are Socialist achievements. Liberals will always oppose things like that.
                        But while applying labels might be convenient it remains a matter of time and place.

                        The Liberal Government in the UK prior to WW1 laid the foundations of the British "Welfare State" well before the Socialists (Labour Party) achieved office . The Asquith Government, including Lloyd-George and that dangerous Left-winger Churchill, introduced such things as National Insurance and an Old Age Pension.
                        "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
                        Samuel Johnson.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

                          In the case of Islam it might. For a start, Islam sees no separation between church and state, in fact combines the two in the "office" of the Caliphate/Caliph.
                          Islam - Jihad - GWOT
                          Its part of monotheism which all religions discarted, Creator being legislator.

                          At-Taghoot

                          How does one take others as god besides Allah? In brief, Ibn al-Qayyim says that "Taghoot" (false god, anything worshipped besides Allah) includes everyone who rules by other than the Revelation of Allah and the example of His Messenger; or that which is worshipped instead of, or in addition to, Allah; or which is followed in opposition to the Commands of Allah. Therefore, if one chooses to love, revere, obey or follow other than Allah and His Revelation, then he could be regarded as a god besides Allah


                          “... and He shares not His legislation with anyone.” (18:26)

                          So the one who judges by the accursed man made laws is a disbeliever, Allah the Almighty says:

                          “Legislation is not but for Allah.” (12:40)

                          That means that nobody has the right to Legislate besides Allah the Almighty, Allah also says:

                          “And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed – then it is those who are the disbelievers.” (5:44)

                          Last edited by Daud; 15 Apr 19, 16:25.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post

                            That is now.

                            I was concerned with the Great Depression; commencing in 1929 and persisting for most of the thirties. Can it really be denied that rampant capitalism caused consderable misery throuhout the world following the Wall Street Crash ?
                            Even then, the US and Americans were doing better than most other countries. The Great Depression was hardly just an American phenomenon, the same economic downturn was felt across the globe.

                            The difference though is that that misery was temporary, not permanent like it becomes in Socialist and Communist countries.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                              Even then, the US and Americans were doing better than most other countries. The Great Depression was hardly just an American phenomenon, the same economic downturn was felt across the globe.

                              The difference though is that that misery was temporary, not permanent like it becomes in Socialist and Communist countries.
                              But initially triggered by the Wall Street Crash brought about be uninformed greed ?
                              "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
                              Samuel Johnson.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post

                                That is now.

                                I was concerned with the Great Depression; commencing in 1929 and persisting for most of the thirties. Can it really be denied that rampant capitalism caused consderable misery throuhout the world following the Wall Street Crash ?




                                The Great Depression was a panic caused by Wall Street and investors gambling with their money. It’s the same thing that happened in ‘08, and it will probably happen again, and people will still blame Bush. It’s what happens when you bet your house on the luck of the draw.

                                Wall Street panics are not true capitalism. They’re what happens when too many people GAMBLE and lose.
                                "It is a fine fox chase, my boys"

                                "It is well that war is so terrible-we would grow too fond of it"

                                Comment

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