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Why is nationalism a bad thing?

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  • Why is nationalism a bad thing?

    We regularly hear these days that Trump is a "Nationalist." We are told that nationalism is a bad thing both directly and indirectly. Why is that? Is Internationalism or Globalism a bad thing?

    In my view Globalism is the real danger here. Globalism with multinational corporations is not good. A one-world government would be a dictatorship of some sort. There'd be nothing to challenge it and nowhere to escape it.
    On the other hand, nationalism offers competition in the form of multiple governments, nations, and ideas. So why is it panned as being something negative or undesirable?

  • #2
    I have wondered the same thing, and noted that the phrase “white supremacist” has been replaced by “white nationalist” in the MSM.
    Clearly, they are trying to convince people that “nationalism” is the functional equivalent of racism, but I am not sure why.
    I suspect it has to do with Trump saying he was a nationalist which automatically makes the word bad and perhaps to influence the immigration debate, but am not certain yet.
    Regardless, the phrase is propaganda by the left and MSM (is that redundant) and further proof that the MSM isn’t interested in truth.

    Perhaps the problem with nationalism in the eyes of the MSM is that it makes people resistant to being ruled by the likes of the UN.
    Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

    Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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    • #3
      The intellectual left has been opposed to nationalism since at least the early 20th century. In part it has to do with luxus. Luxus being not only an increase in physical luxury but psychologically utopianism.

      General intelligence seems to have peaked in the West around 1870. This trend set the ground work for the industrial revolution. At the same time that the industrial revolution was in full swing the Victorian value system insured that intelligent people were still breading at reasonable levels. This produced a large pool of relatively intelligent people with unusually high standards of living from a historical perspective. On of the luxuries that this large class of privileged people enjoyed was ease of travel. Ease of travel combined with a relatively low level of international conflict set the stage for a feeling amongst the privileged that they were citizens of the world.

      At the same time that physical circumstances were making borders seem less important revolutions in communications were taking place. There were new technologies such as international telegraph but also books became inexpensive and readily available across language barriers. It wasn't just common reading material such as newspapers and books that were being shared across borders but scientific collaboration across borders was becoming the norm.

      It was a time of great optimism leading to a progressive ethos in intellectual circles. That faith in progress was shattered by World War I. The intellectual class put the blame for shattered hope squarely at the feet of nationalism. Fascism that arose as a side effect of WWI and lead to WWII only strengthen the conviction that Nationalism was a mental condition or psychopathy.

      You can argue that the relative decline in general intelligence since 1870 has produced a widespread acceptance of technocracy. What I mean by technocracy is basically the bureaucratic state but it is a mental state of acceptance that extends to all institutions such as education and corporations. Such institutional structures alienate the brightest individuals in society and foster an environment that is hostile to competition but perhaps more importantly group selection.

      The progressive mentality is it's own worst enemy. It encourages the mediocre by excess of egalitarianism. By encouraging the bureaucratic state it also alienates the innovative. It's hostility towards competition and natural inclination towards globalism and corporatism leads to a variety of dystopian outcomes. Among those dystopian outcomes is an irrational fear of nationalism.

      The decline in general intelligence and the acceptance of post modernist ideas combine to have some interesting dystopian effects. Compare the definition of nationalism from the Cambridge and Oxford dictionaries.

      Cambridge nationalism = The feelings of affection and pride that people have for their country.

      Oxford nationalism = Having or expressing strong identification with one's own nation and vigorous support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.

      The Oxford definition is the legalistic, bureaucratic state definition in keeping with political correctness. The Cambridge definition is more traditional and I would suggest accurate. The dumbed down bureaucratic state definition is a moralistic simplification of the human experience that otherwise in the natural state of things find meaning in cooperative competition. It is a definition designed for the mediocre.

      Paradoxically there is a perverse appeal in the dystopian definition of things and attitudes in progressivism among large numbers of the intellectually gifted. It can be described as costly fitness signalling. It manifests itself as virtue signalling. Basically it says that I can afford to promote dystopian ideas because I have the intellectual capacity to escape the consequences. It is like a peacock saying I can have this ridiculous tail because I have the wits to still avoid predators.
      We hunt the hunters

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      • #4
        It’s not but because of the times Nationalist movements have gone extremely ugly like the Nazis the Left and liberals want to keep on fighting WW2 forever painting Nationalist movements by countries that are predominantly White as a repeat of the Nazis.
        All the forces behind globalization is about removing and destroying cultures which is why we need patriotic Nationalist movements more then ever to put an end to it.
        Last edited by Snowshoveler; 13 Apr 19, 12:00.

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        • #5
          Nationalism is just another misused word by the Libbies, ho understand nothing but oppose everything on principle.
          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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          • #6
            It isn't, necessarily, but it can be hijacked by some unsavoury people.

            In Scotland, the Scottish National Party want an independent Scotland. Despite the well-trodden idea that a Scot is someone who lives here, many still cling to the false belief that we just hate the English.

            In England, Brexit can almost entirely be blamed at the feet of English nationalists, despite the oft-repeated view that English Nationalism doesn't exist.

            Trump represents an idea that the indigenous population will be outnumbered by immigrants - normally a laughable idea, but - of course - the US has first-hand experience of this, since the indigenous population (the First Nations) are actually the smallest racial group in the country.

            Nationalism in itself can be a positive force, uniting a country against a genuine external threat, or promoting a sense of community (no, you aren't alone, you're one of us), but it's all too easy to whip up nationalistic fervour against a scapegoat (someone who looks, worships, or thinks differently), or genuine outsiders, which can be very destructive.
            Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
              I have wondered the same thing, and noted that the phrase “white supremacist” has been replaced by “white nationalist” in the MSM.
              Clearly, they are trying to convince people that “nationalism” is the functional equivalent of racism, but I am not sure why.
              I suspect it has to do with Trump saying he was a nationalist which automatically makes the word bad and perhaps to influence the immigration debate, but am not certain yet.
              Regardless, the phrase is propaganda by the left and MSM (is that redundant) and further proof that the MSM isn’t interested in truth.

              Perhaps the problem with nationalism in the eyes of the MSM is that it makes people resistant to being ruled by the likes of the UN.
              Yeah, globalization was a Bush policy and the left hated it. They were all about saving the Asian poor from sweatshops. Then Obama got elected, and now globalism is a liberal policy. Round and round it goes as people splinter into parties, religions, etc.
              "It is a fine fox chase, my boys"

              "It is well that war is so terrible-we would grow too fond of it"

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              • #8
                It's like we're in a parallel universe where good is bad and bad is good.
                "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

                "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Persephone View Post
                  It's like we're in a parallel universe where good is bad and bad is good.
                  Doubleplusgood
                  Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

                  That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

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                  • #10
                    Almost all nationalists I used to know/hear about are arseholes, idiots or arsehole idiots.
                    There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                      Almost all nationalists I used to know/hear about are arseholes, idiots or arsehole idiots.
                      I could say the same thing about Communists and dedicated Socialists.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                        Almost all nationalists I used to know/hear about are arseholes, idiots or arsehole idiots.
                        You’re being very hard on yourself Russian and also Serb Nationalist supporter.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                          We regularly hear these days that Trump is a "Nationalist."
                          You're getting it wrong . . . as usual. There is nothing wrong with being a Nationalist. However, Trump and many on this board are White Nationalists. Big difference.

                          Conservatives in the U.S. won't be happy until Jim Crow returns and "White Heterosexual Only" signs are legalized.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Anthrax View Post

                            You're getting it wrong . . . as usual. There is nothing wrong with being a Nationalist. However, Trump and many on this board are White Nationalists. Big difference.
                            Considering that the US is and has been populated by White people it’s only natural that to support the US it’s going to be mostly supported by White people who created the US.
                            If you’re referring to White supremists their beliefs are not well supported they’re a minority.

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                            • #15
                              Communists and socialists try to make things better. Nationalists on the other side believe that they're the only normal humans. Also the number of idiots in their ranks is much inferior to the number of idiot nationalists.
                              There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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