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Colorado sheriff says he will not enforce Red Flag law

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  • Colorado sheriff says he will not enforce Red Flag law

    I have to agree with the Sheriff on this one, depriving a citizen of property or rights without due process is unconstitutional.
    If there is not enough evidence of mental instability to commit a person into a mental care facility how can there be enough evidence to take away that citizens property?
    A "red flag" bill that would allow Colorado law enforcement to confiscate the firearms of those deemed a risk to themselves or others is heading to Gov. Jared Polis' desk — and Weld County's sheriff sees it as something worth going to jail over.

    To be clear, Sheriff Steve Reams doesn't want to go to jail. He'd much rather the issues he sees with the bill be sussed out and the attention be shifted to helping those in mental health crises.

    "(Going to jail is) the absolute last thing I'd like to do," Reams said in an interview with the Coloradoan following a CNN story headlined "This Colorado sheriff is willing to go to jail rather than enforce a proposed gun law."

    "I'd much rather see this get worked out in the courts and dealt with in the courts before it ever comes to that point," Reams told the Coloradoan. "But if and when the time comes, and this issue hasn't been worked out in the courts, then yeah, this is the last choice that I have."
    https://www.coloradoan.com/story/new...re/3332455002/
    Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
    Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

  • #2
    Some temporary (read a set maximum time limit that is reasonably short) suspension of 2nd Amendment rights, pursuant to a court order and concurrent with a commitment to a mental treatment facility after a doctor has determined that same is necessary due to an examination is reasonable. We do this in the case of Ex Parte Domestic Violence Orders....somewhere between 1 and 10 business days is considered reasonable.

    Permanent suspension of 2nd Amendment Rights following a judge's ruling of Incompetence, in a hearing in which the party has the opportunity to exercise their rights to present evidence, witnesses, and cross-examine witnesses and evidence, is reasonable.

    This whole 'Red Flag' mess, by which a subject, potentially any stranger, could make an accusation that you are mentally ill, with their ability to make such diagnoses being irrelevant, along with the veracity of their statements, and have your 2nd Amendment rights even temporarily revoked Ex Parte.....is Unconstitutional Bull$hit. It explicitly creates the conditions by which a subject can have your consitutional rights revoked out of spite, with minimal or no repercussions. It also creates the circumstances by which an activist group can individually dox and revoke the rights of private citizens Ex Parte in the pursuit of their activist goals.

    "Red Flag" is pretty language, just like "Assault Weapons". But none of the legislation that I have seen is objectively reasonable. It's emotional, and wide open for rampant abuse. As a cop, I could meet you one time, get a vibe or just take a dislike to you, and accuse you of mental illness, revoking your 2nd Amendment rights Ex Parte. There would be no recourse, as I'm not making a diagnosis and you cannot prove the negative that you didn't have an off day.

    Progressives: Cops are evil/racist/misogynist/whateverist and abuse their power at ever turn.

    Also Progressives: Only Cops and Military should have guns, Cops should be given broad powers to determine if you can have guns.
    Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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    • #3
      Sounds like the bill is going to pass so I hope this sheriff does stand his ground and protects the constitutional rights of the public. When the government enacts such laws, our police force are really our last line of defense. You cannot sacrifice the constitution for the illusion of safety, but I fear most cops no longer value the constitution given how they've set their priorities. We definitely need more people like Sheriff Reams across the country.
      "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
      - Benjamin Franklin

      The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
        I have to agree with the Sheriff on this one, depriving a citizen of property or rights without due process is unconstitutional.
        If there is not enough evidence of mental instability to commit a person into a mental care facility how can there be enough evidence to take away that citizens property?
        A "red flag" bill that would allow Colorado law enforcement to confiscate the firearms of those deemed a risk to themselves or others is heading to Gov. Jared Polis' desk — and Weld County's sheriff sees it as something worth going to jail over.

        To be clear, Sheriff Steve Reams doesn't want to go to jail. He'd much rather the issues he sees with the bill be sussed out and the attention be shifted to helping those in mental health crises.

        "(Going to jail is) the absolute last thing I'd like to do," Reams said in an interview with the Coloradoan following a CNN story headlined "This Colorado sheriff is willing to go to jail rather than enforce a proposed gun law."

        "I'd much rather see this get worked out in the courts and dealt with in the courts before it ever comes to that point," Reams told the Coloradoan. "But if and when the time comes, and this issue hasn't been worked out in the courts, then yeah, this is the last choice that I have."
        https://www.coloradoan.com/story/new...re/3332455002/
        He's not the only one in Colorado who isn't going to obey the law, and they've got the governor dead to rights because he doesn't obey the law, either.
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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        • #5
          Enforcement of these confiscatory orders is going to lead to more dead police officers.
          Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
          Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
            Enforcement of these confiscatory orders is going to lead to more dead police officers.
            How so?
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            • #7
              Originally posted by Herman Hum View Post

              How so?
              Because people get upset when their rights are trampled upon, and the police are handy.

              This won't survive an appeal. You cannot deprive a subject of their rights and property without more evidence. This is a throw-away bill to pretend the lawmakers are doing something.
              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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              • #8
                The only thing that worries me is that we're basically relying on the appointed courts to repeatedly save the Constitution from morons and the avaricious. At some point, that reliance is going to bite us in the arse.
                Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
                  The only thing that worries me is that we're basically relying on the appointed courts to repeatedly save the Constitution from morons and the avaricious. At some point, that reliance is going to bite us in the arse.
                  This reliance is not good, I agree, but that is the mission of the judicial branch, and the reason it is multi-layered.

                  Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

                    Because people get upset when their rights are trampled upon, and the police are handy.

                    This won't survive an appeal. You cannot deprive a subject of their rights and property without more evidence. This is a throw-away bill to pretend the lawmakers are doing something.
                    Exactly!

                    Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

                      Because people get upset when their rights are trampled upon, and the police are handy.

                      This won't survive an appeal. You cannot deprive a subject of their rights and property without more evidence. This is a throw-away bill to pretend the lawmakers are doing something.
                      We don't make a habit of killing our Leo's because of things like this. This will get challenged in court and it will lose because it has no basis in actual law and defies the Constitution.

                      And for one other reason that you possibly are unaware of - Most of Colorado has no gun registration requirement; therefore, no records of ownership to refer to.

                      And, of course, it will do absolutely nothing to stop anyone seriously mentally ill or criminally homicidal from obtaining a weapon through other sources. The practice of punishing the public for the crimes of the few is not acceptable - even less so in lawless times like we are currently experiencing. The correct answer is for law enforcement and the courts to do their jobs to begin with. In Colorado, only 1% of all criminals ever do hard time, and even those are turned loose early to make room for more.

                      A "life sentence" is only twenty years maximum with time off for good behavior, so fifteen years in reality, and that's for crimes like murder.

                      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Pro-Gun Sanctuaries coming to a city near you!
                        They got the idea from sanctuary cities for illegals.
                        It appears to be working.



                        Organizers of the pro-gun sanctuaries admit they took the idea from liberals who have created immigration sanctuaries across the United States where local officials defy the Trump administration’s efforts to enforce tougher immigration laws.

                        The sanctuary movement is exposing the rift between rural and urban America as much as the one between the Republican and Democratic parties, as small, conservative counties push back against statewide edicts passed by big-city politicians.

                        Backers of the sanctuary movement say they want to take it nationwide. Leaders in all four states where it has taken hold have formed a loose alliance, sometimes sharing strategies or texts of resolutions. They also say they are talking with like-minded activists in California, New York, Iowa and Idaho.

                        https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1QL0ZC
                        "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

                        "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

                          Because people get upset when their rights are trampled upon, and the police are handy.

                          This won't survive an appeal. You cannot deprive a subject of their rights and property without more evidence. This is a throw-away bill to pretend the lawmakers are doing something.
                          Democrats who votes for this stupid law should go out there and TRY to confiscate the guns. I dare them!
                          Last edited by Persephone; 03 Apr 19, 21:26.
                          "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

                          "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Persephone View Post

                            The Democrats who voted for this stupid law should go out there and TRY to confiscate the guns. I dare them!
                            Exactly, you do it!
                            Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

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                            • #15
                              There is many aspect to the “red flag” laws that should be considered, spouses and significant other’s in “difficult “ relationships are going to use these laws as a weapon to one up the other.
                              Divorce lawyers, are going to encourage weaponizing the red flag laws to use the confiscation order as leverage in court.
                              There is no excuse for physical violence, that is a given, unfortunately in many relationships it is a dynamic that is not as simple as he did this or she did that. A spouses know how to trigger anger in the other partner. Any officer will tell you exactly what I mean, and getting between the two who are involved in such love/hate relationship is a no win proposition.
                              The red flag laws may in some cases prevent a crime, but In ongoing volatile situations in which the victim is knowingly manipulating the other partner it is going to add another level of antagonism.
                              Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                              Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

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