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    Cuts to Military Medical Force Included in Pentagon Budget

    https://www.military.com/military-re....nl:hmmm::eek:
    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

    you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

  • #2
    Makes sense.
    ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
    IN MARE IN COELO

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    • #3
      Really! How many of those civs going to be around when you scream "Corpsman" or Medic with the bullets flying.
      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

      you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

      Comment


      • #4
        They'll contract it out. That transfers it from one budget to another and looks good on paper.

        proposed fiscal 2020 DoD budget introduces a proposal to eliminate "roughly 15,000" uniformed health care jobs within the services, converting them to civil service positions.
        The problem is that doctors don't like to serve in the field. That's one of the reasons the military had to create Physician Assistants to begin with. With the constant rotations to deployment, they like it even less and it interrupts continuity of care in a major way.

        Pax and I have been through a long list of practitioners, and it just keeps growing.

        Of course, civil service is far more expensive than military personnel, but hey...the taxpayer has to cover that, right?
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
          Really! How many of those civs going to be around when you scream "Corpsman" or Medic with the bullets flying.
          If I'm reading the article right, they are doing this at the hospitals & clinics, not the field units.

          That being said, I felt a whole lot more comfortable with Majors, LtCols, & Cols treating my son for cancer. The civilians didn't seem to have as much compassion.
          "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Nichols View Post

            If I'm reading the article right, they are doing this at the hospitals & clinics, not the field units.

            That being said, I felt a whole lot more comfortable with Majors, LtCols, & Cols treating my son for cancer. The civilians didn't seem to have as much compassion.
            Doctors cannot afford to be compassionate. It would destroy them. There is a reason why first responders have such a high burnout rate.

            As for John's initial interrogatory, it would depend upon the medical requirements fit force size. We are slowly transitioning back to a peacetime force, and medical requirements are by nature less needed.

            Tuebor

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              They'll contract it out. That transfers it from one budget to another and looks good on paper.



              The problem is that doctors don't like to serve in the field. That's one of the reasons the military had to create Physician Assistants to begin with. With the constant rotations to deployment, they like it even less and it interrupts continuity of care in a major way.

              Pax and I have been through a long list of practitioners, and it just keeps growing.

              Of course, civil service is far more expensive than military personnel, but hey...the taxpayer has to cover that, right?
              I'm not convinced on that. There are some benefits one gets in the military that civil servants don't receive.
              IIRC, many medical and dental students get their tuition, etc. covered if they do time in the military after graduation.

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              • #8
                JFNC, We R talking about the care that our troops get on the very front lines and not about your BS wealth creation. Are you even more greedy than the average?
                "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

                  I'm not convinced on that. There are some benefits one gets in the military that civil servants don't receive.
                  IIRC, many medical and dental students get their tuition, etc. covered if they do time in the military after graduation.
                  Not anymore. That was under the old Berry Plan. All a physician owes the military now is two years, enters as a captain and does well, but they hate field duty, especially now that they can serve two full rotations in the ME in that time frame so the majority do not stay. Besides, they still have those loans to pay off.

                  Even under the Berry Plan, a doctor only had to pay back two years of field duty in exchange for a full ride medical training in a military medical training hospital. Young physicians generally aren't motivated to serve a career.

                  Reason the Army came up with the PA program was to offset the loss of 400 Battalion Surgeons when the Berry Plan was closed. Even that turned out not to be enough. The military's short-sightedness, however, has made it difficult to even retain PA's, who were required to serve 6 years in return for 2 years of in-service training, the second tear of which was already a working year just like that of an intern.

                  My clinic chief in Germany came in for two years as an LTC, just to see Europe on the Army's dime. He didn't eve now how to properly wear his uniform or to properly salute. Never bothered to learn, either.
                  Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tuebor View Post

                    Doctors cannot afford to be compassionate. It would destroy them. There is a reason why first responders have such a high burnout rate.

                    As for John's initial interrogatory, it would depend upon the medical requirements fit force size. We are slowly transitioning back to a peacetime force, and medical requirements are by nature less needed.

                    Tuebor
                    On the down side, the military has increasingly relied on the reserve component as a "temp service" to fill gaps in the active duty side. One of these has been to make more call ups of medical units and staff. That has resulted in a good portion of the highly qualified doctors, nurses, and other full-time civilian medical people in those units quitting the reserves rather than see their civilian careers ruined by repeated call ups for months at a time.

                    And, while there are programs that will pay you to go through medical school if you serve X years, there are alternatives to the military like the Public Health Service. From my experience with them, the PHS seems to have two large groups within it that have negatives attached. The first are recent graduates who are doing their time to pay for their schooling. They intend to quit once that's done and go into private practice. They simply lack experience and aren't dedicated to the job. But, they're usually otherwise good at what they do.
                    The second group are foreigners who were "doctors" or other medical practitioners in some, to use Trump's term $h!+hole of a country that can't practice as a doctor in the US and the washed up hacks that can't practice in the civilian economy due to malpractice liability and poor quality of their work.
                    The foreign ones are hit and miss (think throwing hand grenades blindfolded). Some can be very good, some are OMG awful. The hacks on the other hand are mistakes looking for a patient to happen on.

                    The PHS is what US healthcare becomes if the government runs it. Like the Gold King mine incident with the EPA, if the government runs healthcare you have little or no recourse for poor service, malpractice, incompetence, or anything else. The military is largely the same way in a legal sense.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                      JFNC, We R talking about the care that our troops get on the very front lines and not about your BS wealth creation. Are you even more greedy than the average?
                      Greed comes in a variety of sizes, but I've never expected others to huck my ruck when it came to living.

                      One has to have created wealth before it can be taxed/re-distributed and I'd expect one like your self whom claims to be educated and an officer in background to have understood and grasped that basic, among a few others. The BS is from your end belief there is a bottomless funding source.

                      Supposedly we are winding down on our military-combat operations so the need for front-line troops being carried for may be decreasing also. Given the past record of our Guv'mint, I've no doubt that if the need increased, they'd find the way to "draft" the medicos needed. Meanwhile, I hear enough from former service members about the problems and challenges of using VA medical facilities that an approach to make use of more local and general medical resources would be a better and more workable alternative.

                      Neither wealth nor money grows on trees, a reality you may want to get a handle on.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tuebor View Post
                        Doctors cannot afford to be compassionate. It would destroy them.
                        That is not what I witnessed in the children hem/onc world. I have witnessed the exact opposite, they can't afford to not be compassionate.
                        "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                          That is not what I witnessed in the children hem/onc world. I have witnessed the exact opposite, they can't afford to not be compassionate.
                          You can be compassionate if you learn to compartmentalize. Otherwise, you won't survive.
                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

                            Greed comes in a variety of sizes, but I've never expected others to huck my ruck when it came to living.

                            One has to have created wealth before it can be taxed/re-distributed and I'd expect one like your self whom claims to be educated and an officer in background to have understood and grasped that basic, among a few others. The BS is from your end belief there is a bottomless funding source.

                            Supposedly we are winding down on our military-combat operations so the need for front-line troops being carried for may be decreasing also. Given the past record of our Guv'mint, I've no doubt that if the need increased, they'd find the way to "draft" the medicos needed. Meanwhile, I hear enough from former service members about the problems and challenges of using VA medical facilities that an approach to make use of more local and general medical resources would be a better and more workable alternative.

                            Neither wealth nor money grows on trees, a reality you may want to get a handle on.
                            When you get Congress to acknowledge that fact, be sure and let us know.

                            The VA system is a horror story.

                            Of curse, a lot of money is probably being side-tracked to build the brand new Walter Reed that the Army will no doubt demand. I don;t imagine the Navy likes sharing Bethesda with them.
                            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                              You can be compassionate if you learn to compartmentalize. Otherwise, you won't survive.
                              Back when I was eleven I contracted meningitis. Our GP was a kindly old buffer, excellent bedside manner, full of compassion and incompetent and completely mis-diagnosed me Fortunately he still sent me off to hospital where the houseman, a refugee from what was then Indo China, all clinical efficiency recognised the symptoms correctly and had me pumped so full of penicillin that my back side resembled a pin cushion. Yes civilian or military I would want compassion from my doctor but above all I want competence.
                              Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                              Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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