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Should the U.S. give reparations for slavery?

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  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Oh ya John. Well Jesus founded the Catholic Church in the 1st century. The history of the Church is the message of Jesus, it can never be changed. Any Catholic in all of history that opposed equality among man was going against The Faith.

    We did have a # of white Christians in the USA whom argued against other white Christians wrt the issue of slavery. White Americans used the Bible in the 19th century to approve of or disapprove of slavery.

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  • Half Pint John
    replied
    Got to love your priest

    The history of the RCC isn't praise worthy.

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  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Imagine why today we see some middle eastern Arab Jews and Muslims whom actually look white. We see this in Syria Lebanon Israel Jordan and more .

    This clearly goes back to the intermingling amongst peoples in the times of the Roman Empire of which The empire stretched into the heart of the Middle East. Such Beautiful diversity from the Roman empire...we saw the same from a Number of Catholic Kingdoms of the Middle Ages. Thatís why I always identify as a Catholic in the first place itís the most proud identifier for me . Above anything else I am a Catholic.

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  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    So called racism was completely unknown to the Roman Empire . We Can see the 33rd emperor of the Roman empire was an Arab. We can see that Jews Africans and Europeans all had the opportunity to advance in the Roman Empire...

    Otoh In the early United States of America black folks were enslaved and they do not live the same lives as their brothers did in the Roman empire, The various Catholic kingdoms of Europe , the various Catholic and Christian entities of Africa , As well as a number of the Muslim empires and kingdoms.

    Islam and Christianity When practiced properly Are very open and strong religions Thatís why today over half The world is Muslim or Christian . And why Muslims and Christians have contributed so much to technology science medicine and all fields of life.

    America is a beautiful country today with work to do. Our issues today are jobs related . Thatís one Thing the US government can do is improve the opportunities for the black-and-white poor folks in the inner cities.

    In itís early days the United States got away from the values of all the great empires and kingdoms of history wrt how the early USA approved of slavery of black people.
    Last edited by Stonewall_Jack; 14 Mar 19, 16:45.

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  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    No, because the Romans never persecuted Catholics because they did not exist at that time. They persecuted Jews from Judea and surrounding regions. Masada was about the Jews...No Catholics.
    Disagree here my friend as various Jewish groups openly rebelled against the Roman empire so both sides have their good and bad there

    Jews also thrived in various times in the Roman Repulic and Empire. These were Roman Jews or Jewish Romans

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  • slick_miester
    replied
    Originally posted by marktwain View Post
    I've been jilted by number of Italian women. Does that count?
    Join the club.

    Originally posted by marktwain View Post
    back to Rome, it was actually ( relatively) quite favorable to Jews- after the Sacking of Jerusalem and the full occupation of Palestine. The roman forum was built with seized gold form the second temple..
    Titus had actually bought 60,000 Jewish slaves to Rome who worked day and night to build the Roman Colosseum. Confirmation of this lies in the Arch of Titus, which portrays a menorah as a component of the abundance from Jerusalem. Right up ítil today, the Talmud denies Jews from strolling under the Arch.

    https://www.ancienthistorylists.com/...the-colosseum/
    I don't know how "favorable" Roman bondage was.

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  • marktwain
    replied
    Originally posted by Massena View Post

    You were alive during the time of the Roman Empire? When did any Romans persecute you?
    I've been jilted by number of Italian women. Does that count?

    back to Rome, it was actually ( relatively) quite favorable to Jews- after the Sacking of Jerusalem and the full occupation of Palestine. The roman forum was built with seized gold form the second temple..

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  • slick_miester
    replied
    Originally posted by Nichols View Post
    Originally posted by TactiKill J.
    . . . . propose a plan to help blacks immigrate to other countries.
    This is a history forum, I strongly recommend that you read up on the history of Liberia.
    I overlooked that part. Would it be fair to say that ethnically monolithic states carved out of formally heterogeneous societies tend to fall either into internecine conflict or tyranny? The citizens of the new state need to prove that they're more Jewish, Irish, African, etc, than both their predecessors and their contemporaries, and out of all of that conflict rises one party that can at least temporarily tamp down the chaos. Haiti and Sri Lanka are prime examples of that kind of thing, though I'm sure there are others.

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  • Nichols
    replied
    Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
    Slaves were promised reparations which the American government never delivered on.
    Yes, they were:

    Ideas for what we now call affirmative action came as early as the Reconstruction Era (1865Ė1877) in which a former slave population lacked the skills and resources for independent living.[17] In 1865, General William Tecumseh Sherman proposed, for practical reasons, to divide the land and goods from Georgia and grant it to black families, which became the "Forty acres and a mule" policy.[17] The proposal was never widely adopted due to strong political opposition, and Sherman's orders were soon revoked by President Andrew Johnson.

    Unfortunately the democrats came to power and Reconstruction ended.


    Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
    A better question is whether or not blacks deserve reparations for past systemic racism like segregation and discrimination. With that it's much easier to trace who is owed and the impact of that racism is still relevant to blacks alive today.
    Keep in mind, this segregation & discrimination was tied into the democrats platform.

    They have been getting Affirmative Action for a while:

    In 1969, the Nixon administration initiated the "Philadelphia Order". It was regarded as the most forceful plan thus far to guarantee fair hiring practices in construction jobs. Philadelphia was selected as the test case because, as Assistant Secretary of Labor Arthur Fletcher explained, "The craft unions and the construction industry are among the most egregious offenders against equal opportunity laws . . . openly hostile toward letting blacks into their closed circle." The order included definite "goals and timetables." As President Nixon asserted, "We would not impose quotas, but would require federal contractors to show 'affirmative action' to meet the goals of increasing minority employment."[26]

    It was through the Philadelphia Plan that the Nixon administration formed their adapted definition of affirmative action and became the official policy of the US government. The plan was defined as "racial goals and timetables, not quotas"[19]:124


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_the_United_States

    In a nutshell; the republicans fought to free the slaves. From the North over 300,000 died in that war to free the slaves.

    When the democrats gained power; reconstruction came to an end and discrimination became institutionally accepted.

    The republicans pushed for Affirmative Action which no matter how you look at it is a form of reparations for the democrats segregation, discrimination, and racists laws.

    Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
    Instead, I'd much rather see a politician have the balls to step up and admit the truth. This cannot work out long term and propose a plan to help blacks immigrate to other countries.
    This is a history forum, I strongly recommend that you read up on the history of Liberia.

    Leave a comment:


  • slick_miester
    replied
    Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
    Slaves were promised reparations which the American government never delivered on.
    Can you furnish a source for that? Thank you in advance.

    Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
    Further, when you look at the issues still present today, cash is not going to fix any of it. So by every angle, I have to say no to reparations. They would not be helpful and would not solve anything.
    After reading Frederick Douglass, Mary Chestnut, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, and others, it's pretty clear that above and beyond any of the institutions within their communities, the family has consistently been under attack in African-American communities. Like you, I don't see how money would revitalize family life. Throw cash at a dysfunctional family and all you'll end up with is a dysfunctional family with cash. That won't establish a foundation for a healthy community, able to raise healthy and productive citizens.

    Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
    Instead, I'd much rather see a politician have the balls to step up and admit the truth. This cannot work out long term and propose a plan to help blacks immigrate to other countries.
    We can't even get the amateur historians at ACG to admit that rape was part and parcel of slavery. Good luck getting politicians admitting anything that their constituents persistently deny.

    Leave a comment:


  • TactiKill J.
    replied
    Slaves were promised reparations which the American government never delivered on. So there is a debt owed. Do we go back and right that wrong today? I think we have to ask ourselves what exactly are we trying to accomplish. Are you only trying to pay a past debt, or are you trying to improve race relations? Ultimately, reparations deserved or not, would significantly increase white hostility towards blacks so if the goal is to improve relations, it wouldn't work.

    A better question is whether or not blacks deserve reparations for past systemic racism like segregation and discrimination. With that it's much easier to trace who is owed and the impact of that racism is still relevant to blacks alive today. But again, even if it is deserved under that context it would still splinter the nation even further. So what does it really accomplish?

    Further, when you look at the issues still present today, cash is not going to fix any of it. So by every angle, I have to say no to reparations. They would not be helpful and would not solve anything.

    Instead, I'd much rather see a politician have the balls to step up and admit the truth. This cannot work out long term and propose a plan to help blacks immigrate to other countries.

    Leave a comment:


  • American87
    replied
    Originally posted by Massena View Post

    If you are a Roman Catholic, God is capitalized as both a proper noun and a sign of respect.
    Thank you, you arenít very smart but god moves you

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  • Massena
    replied
    Originally posted by American87 View Post

    Yes, that was god at work. Bless your heart Massena.
    If you are a Roman Catholic, God is capitalized as both a proper noun and a sign of respect.

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  • American87
    replied
    Originally posted by Massena View Post
    Yes-there were only Christians in the Roman Empire as the religion hadn't broken into different permanent Christian sects yet. The first schism happened in the 11th century when the eastern church broke from Rome.

    There were problems in the Christian 'community' which was shy Constantine the Great called the council of Nicaea in the 4th century to settle the differences. And Constantine had to threaten to use force against the bishops if they could not come to a decision on Christian doctrine. Their 'decision' came swiftly after that announcement.
    Yes, that was god at work. Bless your heart Massena.

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  • American87
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    No, because the Romans never persecuted Catholics because they did not exist at that time. They persecuted Jews from Judea and surrounding regions. Masada was about the Jews...No Catholics.
    They persecuted Jews and Christians. They have a lot of reparations to pay out.

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