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Should the U.S. give reparations for slavery?

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  • Nebfer
    replied
    Why should we do reparations? All the people affected are long dead, their children are all long dead (sans a handful), most of their grand kids are dead and many of the great grand kids are dead or are in the process of dying off.

    So to whom do we owe reparations?

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    The teachings oppose pedophiles, too. Maybe your priest should voice some official concerns about that.

    Meanwhile, we're talking about whether or not reparations are due anyone for slavery. I vote NO.
    The Catholic Church opposes all sex crimes. And at my Local Church Opposition to such crimes have been voiced.

    Btw The Roman Empire was not against Jews and welcomed diversity. The Romans were diverse as we can see their lands stretched into various parts of the world. The Roman Empire welcomed those that could provide support,

    Sons of Israel in Caesar’s Service: Jewish Soldiers in the Roman Military Andrew J. Schoenfeld, MD

    The participation of Roman Jewish soldiers in the armies of Imperial Rome often goes unrecognized. This is mainly a result of a lack of recognition on the part of scholars who wish to use Rabbinic sources as the benchmark for Jewish practice in the Imperial Age. It is also difficult to identify Jewish soldiers, many of whom had Greek and Latin names, unless they are specifically identified as Jews or are found in a Jewish context such as dedicatory inscriptions from a synagogue.

    Nonetheless, by using a variety of sources from the period it is possible to appreciate the depth and breadth of Jewish service in the Roman legions from the time of Caesar down to the early fifth century. There were Jews who served as simple foot soldiers, influential generals like Tiberius Julius Alexander, and Jewish military units such as the Regii Emeseni Iudaei. Regardless of their relationship to “orthodox” Jewish communities of the time, the service of Roman Jews in the Imperial armed forces must be recognized. In the year 69 the Roman province of Judea was consumed by a three-year rebellion that pitted Jewish zealots against the authority of the Emperor and the House of Herod.

    Not only was the revolt a destabilizing factor in the eastern regions of the Empire but it also posed a significant challenge to the new emperor, Vespasian. In order to quell the Jewish revolt in his eastern marches, Vespasian resolved to send an army under the command of his son, Titus, with explicit orders to crush the insurrection. Although the emperor’s young son showed exceptional talent and tact for leadership, he lacked the military experience deemed necessary for a Roman general. Therefore, the emperor was forced to choose an able commander capable of assisting Titus in the Judean expedition. A great number of prestigious military men were available for the post, including Annius Vinicianus, son-in-law to the famed general, Corbulo. But Vespasian made the unlikely choice of an Alexandrian Jew named Tiberius Julius Alexander to spearhead the Roman army in its effort to thwart the Jewish uprising. The emperor’s decision was to prove fortuitous, as not only did Tiberius Alexander coordinate a Roman victory in Judea but he also became Titus’ trusted advisor and may have eventually reached the rank of Praetorian Prefect


    https://muse.jhu.edu/article/197158/pdf

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  • marktwain
    replied
    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

    Join the club.





    I don't know how "favorable" Roman bondage was.
    Mia maxima culpa !I meant to type "UNTIL after the sacking of ..."

    Unfortunately, a leprechaun or Gremlin channeled my consciousness for mischief....or something like that...

    the Maccabees had an " eternal fraternal alliance ' with the Roman republic... engraved on bronze tablets. Vespasian probably melted them down first..

    I do imagine that The Flavian family spinmeister probably put out press releases lauding Vespasian's " Creating 60,0000 direct jobs plus the indirect employment ...:"

    " and the high levels of satisfaction among captive - lions....

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
    And fwiw I do not consider myself much of a religious person. I need to get to Church more. I did get to Church a few weeks back where the Priest asked everyone in Audience to sign a document opposed to Abortion,. The document was to be presented to Gov officials standing for abortion... I gladly signed. That Catholic Leadership by Father Dave reminded of those American Christians of that Civil War Era that said the the teachings of Jesus oppose Slavery.

    There are many more religious people in our world compared to myself. But I still believe fully in the Catholic Doctrine of standing for liberal values, helping the poor and making the world a better place.
    The teachings oppose pedophiles, too. Maybe your priest should voice some official concerns about that.

    Meanwhile, we're talking about whether or not reparations are due anyone for slavery. I vote NO.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    And fwiw I do not consider myself much of a religious person. I need to get to Church more. I did get to Church a few weeks back where the Priest asked everyone in Audience to sign a document opposed to Abortion,. The document was to be presented to Gov officials standing for abortion... I gladly signed. That Catholic Leadership by Father Dave reminded of those American Christians of that Civil War Era that said the the teachings of Jesus oppose Slavery.

    There are many more religious people in our world compared to myself. But I still believe fully in the Catholic Doctrine of standing for liberal values, helping the poor and making the world a better place.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by Massena View Post

    What would evolve into the Roman Catholic Church according to Church teachings was founded by Jesus Christ. However, it was not known as the Catholic Church until much later and some historians believe that the Roman Catholic Church did not come into existence until the official beginning in 590 AD with Pope Gregory I.

    What year or time did the Church officially become the Roman Catholic Church? It surely wasn't when Jesus founded it. The title probably was not used until the Great Schism of 1054. Or, some historians believe that the term didn't come into usage until the Church of England broke with Rome.

    The bottom line is that Jesus didn't use the term and it didn't come into usage until much later.
    It can be said that Jesus founded the Catholic Church. See this,

    Just before he was crucified, Jesus prayed not only for the universality and catholicity of the Church, but for her visible unity:

    [T]hat they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me Jn 17:2123 NASB).

    The early Church understood Jesus words. What good was an invisible, theoretical, impractical unity? For the world to see a catholic unity, the oneness of the Church must be a visible, real, physical, and visible reality. All of this the Catholic Church is. Since the earliest centuries Christians have confessed that the Church is one, holy, catholic and apostolic. One because there is only one, visible, organic, and unified Church; holy because she is called out of the world to be the Bride of Christ, righteous and sanctified; catholic because she is universal, unified, and covers the whole world; apostolic because Christ founded her (Mt. 16:18) through his apostles, and the apostles authority are carried on through the bishops. Through the centuries, this creed has been the statement of the Church.


    https://www.catholicconvert.com/blog...10/29/1587388/

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  • Massena
    replied
    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

    Jesus did find the Catholic Church which teaches Christianity. We may disagree on this thats ok, I will never change my view as Our Lord and Savior founded the Catholic Church which btw the Church teaches that good non Catholics can get into Heaven.

    The Catholic Church Was Founded By Jesus Christ Our Lord

    http://www.ncregister.com/blog/bheld...hrist-our-lord

    What would evolve into the Roman Catholic Church according to Church teachings was founded by Jesus Christ. However, it was not known as the Catholic Church until much later and some historians believe that the Roman Catholic Church did not come into existence until the official beginning in 590 AD with Pope Gregory I.

    What year or time did the Church officially become the Roman Catholic Church? It surely wasn't when Jesus founded it. The title probably was not used until the Great Schism of 1054. Or, some historians believe that the term didn't come into usage until the Church of England broke with Rome.

    The bottom line is that Jesus didn't use the term and it didn't come into usage until much later.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Three Cheers for the Abolitionist Pope!":
    American Reaction to Gregory XVI's Condemnation of the Slave Trade, 1840-1860


    John F. Quinn


    In December, 1839, Pope Gregory XVI issued In Supremo, an apostolic letter that condemned the slave trade in the strongest possible terms. He published the statement at the prompting of the British government, which had been campaigning for years to bring the trade to an end.

    The British believed that a papal letter might persuade Spain and Portugal to enforce the laws against slave trafficking in their domains, but it had little impact on either country. Instead, Gregory's pronouncement set off a debate both within and without the Catholic community in the United States. During the 1840's and '50's, it twice surfaced during presidential campaigns, was hotly debated by supporters of the Irish Repeal1 movement, and was hailed by the abolitionist leader Wendell Phillips. Even the Catholic bishops, who were very wary about making political pronouncements, were drawn into the fray. Indeed, as the Church's ranks swelled through immigration from Ireland and to a lesser extent from German states and made it America's largest religion, arguments raged over what it really taught about slavery.


    2 All the way up until the Civil War, abolitionists repeatedly put forward Gregory's letter when trying to make the case that the Catholic Church opposed slavery


    https://muse.jhu.edu/article/54484/summary

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  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by Massena View Post

    The Spanish Inquisition along with pogroms against the Jews and putting them into ghettos most certainly was against the teachings of Jesus.

    Pope Pius VII, who was pope during Napoleon's reign as Emperor of the French maintained the Inquisition in Rome as well as a Jewish ghetto. Napoleon abolished the Inquisition in both Spain and Rome and also abolished the Jewish ghetto in Rome. All were reestablished by 'good Catholics' when Napoleon fell.
    To add,

    An Organized Society

    The plain, simple truth is that Jesus Christ founded on earth directly and personally an organized religious society which he called his Church. A society is a number of people who work together under the same authority using the same means towards the same objective.

    Jesus Christ selected certain men whom he personally trained to govern his Church under one whom he appointed its head. He told them what they were to aim at and how they were to do it, with his help. Years passed and that simple society grew; its organization became more complex, but we can trace its history through the centuries. To-day only the Catholic Church claims, and is able to prove her claim, to be that society.

    https://www.catholic.com/magazine/pr...christ-founded

    Again, no matter what is said friend. Im never changing my view that Jesus founded the Catholic Church. One can say the whole point of being religious is to believe. I got no problem with non Catholics or Atheists whom tell a different story about our world and the afterlife..

    We have diverse beliefs in our world and that is great. The Church itself welcomes diversity. So anyone that takes offense to a Catholic saying my religion is true, a Hindu saying my religion is true, etc etc...that is there own problem. We can all get along.

    In the 12th Century, The Catholic Kingdom of Jerusalem was praised by a Muslim scholar for its tolerance of non Christians. And it all makes sense...note the stories of King Arthur, Robin Hood, Richard I, and The round table...it is very interesting that Christian men and women of the middle ages were entertained by stories involving very good and humane values such as giving to the poor and fighting for what is good and right. You talk about the Spanish Empire, well we can go back hundreds of years before the Spanish Empire to find the Catholic Kingdom of Jerusalem which one day will rise again God willing. We can see that Catholics of the middle ages practiced love and tolerance, well the world today could use that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by Massena View Post

    The Spanish Inquisition along with pogroms against the Jews and putting them into ghettos most certainly was against the teachings of Jesus.

    Pope Pius VII, who was pope during Napoleon's reign as Emperor of the French maintained the Inquisition in Rome as well as a Jewish ghetto. Napoleon abolished the Inquisition in both Spain and Rome and also abolished the Jewish ghetto in Rome. All were reestablished by 'good Catholics' when Napoleon fell.
    I agree that Catholic history included intolerance. Many Catholics point out that the message of Jesus is inclusive though. So one has to separate the Church teachings from any and all Catholics of history that taught intolerance, as intolerance goes against The Faith.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by Massena View Post

    No, Jesus founded Christianity. The Catholic Church evolved from that founding.
    Jesus did find the Catholic Church which teaches Christianity. We may disagree on this thats ok, I will never change my view as Our Lord and Savior founded the Catholic Church which btw the Church teaches that good non Catholics can get into Heaven.

    The Catholic Church Was Founded By Jesus Christ Our Lord

    http://www.ncregister.com/blog/bheld...hrist-our-lord


    Leave a comment:


  • Massena
    replied
    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
    Any Catholic in all of history that opposed equality among man was going against The Faith.
    The Spanish Inquisition along with pogroms against the Jews and putting them into ghettos most certainly was against the teachings of Jesus.

    Pope Pius VII, who was pope during Napoleon's reign as Emperor of the French maintained the Inquisition in Rome as well as a Jewish ghetto. Napoleon abolished the Inquisition in both Spain and Rome and also abolished the Jewish ghetto in Rome. All were reestablished by 'good Catholics' when Napoleon fell.

    Leave a comment:


  • Massena
    replied
    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
    Oh ya John. Well Jesus founded the Catholic Church in the 1st century. The history of the Church is the message of Jesus, it can never be changed. Any Catholic in all of history that opposed equality among man was going against The Faith.

    We did have a # of white Christians in the USA whom argued against other white Christians wrt the issue of slavery. White Americans used the Bible in the 19th century to approve of or disapprove of slavery.
    No, Jesus founded Christianity. The Catholic Church evolved from that founding.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hida Akechi
    replied
    No. Absolutely not.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Of course to note as a Catholic...the Church says that good non Catholics can get into heaven. Its interesting that Protestants when saying the Apostles Creed, actually in part say I believe in the Holy Catholic Church.

    https://www.catholic.com/magazine/pr...christ-founded

    The early USA would have saw Protestants and Catholics uniting against slavery which is interesting.

    Leave a comment:

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