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Should the U.S. give reparations for slavery?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Tsar View Post
    Absolutely!

    Every single person that the U.S. government held as a slave should be compensated for that injustice. Should their descendants, NO.
    Exactly. Iím Catholic, should the Roman government pay me reparations for persecuting me thousands of years ago?
    "It is a fine fox chase, my boys"

    "It is well that war is so terrible-we would grow too fond of it"

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    • #17
      Originally posted by American87 View Post

      Exactly. Iím Catholic, should the Roman government pay me reparations for persecuting me thousands of years ago?
      You were alive during the time of the Roman Empire? When did any Romans persecute you?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by American87 View Post

        Exactly. Iím Catholic, should the Roman government pay me reparations for persecuting me thousands of years ago?
        No, because the Romans never persecuted Catholics because they did not exist at that time. They persecuted Jews from Judea and surrounding regions. Masada was about the Jews...No Catholics.
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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        • #19
          I suspect he confused Catholics with Christians - the Romans crucified for less
          High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

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          • #20
            Yes-there were only Christians in the Roman Empire as the religion hadn't broken into different permanent Christian sects yet. The first schism happened in the 11th century when the eastern church broke from Rome.

            There were problems in the Christian 'community' which was shy Constantine the Great called the council of Nicaea in the 4th century to settle the differences. And Constantine had to threaten to use force against the bishops if they could not come to a decision on Christian doctrine. Their 'decision' came swiftly after that announcement.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

              No, because the Romans never persecuted Catholics because they did not exist at that time. They persecuted Jews from Judea and surrounding regions. Masada was about the Jews...No Catholics.
              They persecuted Jews and Christians. They have a lot of reparations to pay out.
              "It is a fine fox chase, my boys"

              "It is well that war is so terrible-we would grow too fond of it"

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Massena View Post
                Yes-there were only Christians in the Roman Empire as the religion hadn't broken into different permanent Christian sects yet. The first schism happened in the 11th century when the eastern church broke from Rome.

                There were problems in the Christian 'community' which was shy Constantine the Great called the council of Nicaea in the 4th century to settle the differences. And Constantine had to threaten to use force against the bishops if they could not come to a decision on Christian doctrine. Their 'decision' came swiftly after that announcement.
                Yes, that was god at work. Bless your heart Massena.
                "It is a fine fox chase, my boys"

                "It is well that war is so terrible-we would grow too fond of it"

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by American87 View Post

                  Yes, that was god at work. Bless your heart Massena.
                  If you are a Roman Catholic, God is capitalized as both a proper noun and a sign of respect.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Massena View Post

                    If you are a Roman Catholic, God is capitalized as both a proper noun and a sign of respect.
                    Thank you, you arenít very smart but god moves you
                    "It is a fine fox chase, my boys"

                    "It is well that war is so terrible-we would grow too fond of it"

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                    • #25
                      Slaves were promised reparations which the American government never delivered on. So there is a debt owed. Do we go back and right that wrong today? I think we have to ask ourselves what exactly are we trying to accomplish. Are you only trying to pay a past debt, or are you trying to improve race relations? Ultimately, reparations deserved or not, would significantly increase white hostility towards blacks so if the goal is to improve relations, it wouldn't work.

                      A better question is whether or not blacks deserve reparations for past systemic racism like segregation and discrimination. With that it's much easier to trace who is owed and the impact of that racism is still relevant to blacks alive today. But again, even if it is deserved under that context it would still splinter the nation even further. So what does it really accomplish?

                      Further, when you look at the issues still present today, cash is not going to fix any of it. So by every angle, I have to say no to reparations. They would not be helpful and would not solve anything.

                      Instead, I'd much rather see a politician have the balls to step up and admit the truth. This cannot work out long term and propose a plan to help blacks immigrate to other countries.

                      "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                      - Benjamin Franklin

                      The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                        Slaves were promised reparations which the American government never delivered on.
                        Can you furnish a source for that? Thank you in advance.

                        Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                        Further, when you look at the issues still present today, cash is not going to fix any of it. So by every angle, I have to say no to reparations. They would not be helpful and would not solve anything.
                        After reading Frederick Douglass, Mary Chestnut, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, and others, it's pretty clear that above and beyond any of the institutions within their communities, the family has consistently been under attack in African-American communities. Like you, I don't see how money would revitalize family life. Throw cash at a dysfunctional family and all you'll end up with is a dysfunctional family with cash. That won't establish a foundation for a healthy community, able to raise healthy and productive citizens.

                        Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                        Instead, I'd much rather see a politician have the balls to step up and admit the truth. This cannot work out long term and propose a plan to help blacks immigrate to other countries.
                        We can't even get the amateur historians at ACG to admit that rape was part and parcel of slavery. Good luck getting politicians admitting anything that their constituents persistently deny.
                        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                          Slaves were promised reparations which the American government never delivered on.
                          Yes, they were:

                          Ideas for what we now call affirmative action came as early as the Reconstruction Era (1865Ė1877) in which a former slave population lacked the skills and resources for independent living.[17] In 1865, General William Tecumseh Sherman proposed, for practical reasons, to divide the land and goods from Georgia and grant it to black families, which became the "Forty acres and a mule" policy.[17] The proposal was never widely adopted due to strong political opposition, and Sherman's orders were soon revoked by President Andrew Johnson.

                          Unfortunately the democrats came to power and Reconstruction ended.


                          Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                          A better question is whether or not blacks deserve reparations for past systemic racism like segregation and discrimination. With that it's much easier to trace who is owed and the impact of that racism is still relevant to blacks alive today.
                          Keep in mind, this segregation & discrimination was tied into the democrats platform.

                          They have been getting Affirmative Action for a while:

                          In 1969, the Nixon administration initiated the "Philadelphia Order". It was regarded as the most forceful plan thus far to guarantee fair hiring practices in construction jobs. Philadelphia was selected as the test case because, as Assistant Secretary of Labor Arthur Fletcher explained, "The craft unions and the construction industry are among the most egregious offenders against equal opportunity laws . . . openly hostile toward letting blacks into their closed circle." The order included definite "goals and timetables." As President Nixon asserted, "We would not impose quotas, but would require federal contractors to show 'affirmative action' to meet the goals of increasing minority employment."[26]

                          It was through the Philadelphia Plan that the Nixon administration formed their adapted definition of affirmative action and became the official policy of the US government. The plan was defined as "racial goals and timetables, not quotas"[19]:124


                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_the_United_States

                          In a nutshell; the republicans fought to free the slaves. From the North over 300,000 died in that war to free the slaves.

                          When the democrats gained power; reconstruction came to an end and discrimination became institutionally accepted.

                          The republicans pushed for Affirmative Action which no matter how you look at it is a form of reparations for the democrats segregation, discrimination, and racists laws.

                          Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                          Instead, I'd much rather see a politician have the balls to step up and admit the truth. This cannot work out long term and propose a plan to help blacks immigrate to other countries.
                          This is a history forum, I strongly recommend that you read up on the history of Liberia.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                            Originally posted by TactiKill J.
                            . . . . propose a plan to help blacks immigrate to other countries.
                            This is a history forum, I strongly recommend that you read up on the history of Liberia.
                            I overlooked that part. Would it be fair to say that ethnically monolithic states carved out of formally heterogeneous societies tend to fall either into internecine conflict or tyranny? The citizens of the new state need to prove that they're more Jewish, Irish, African, etc, than both their predecessors and their contemporaries, and out of all of that conflict rises one party that can at least temporarily tamp down the chaos. Haiti and Sri Lanka are prime examples of that kind of thing, though I'm sure there are others.
                            I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Massena View Post

                              You were alive during the time of the Roman Empire? When did any Romans persecute you?
                              I've been jilted by number of Italian women. Does that count?

                              back to Rome, it was actually ( relatively) quite favorable to Jews- after the Sacking of Jerusalem and the full occupation of Palestine. The roman forum was built with seized gold form the second temple..
                              The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by marktwain View Post
                                I've been jilted by number of Italian women. Does that count?
                                Join the club.

                                Originally posted by marktwain View Post
                                back to Rome, it was actually ( relatively) quite favorable to Jews- after the Sacking of Jerusalem and the full occupation of Palestine. The roman forum was built with seized gold form the second temple..
                                Titus had actually bought 60,000 Jewish slaves to Rome who worked day and night to build the Roman Colosseum. Confirmation of this lies in the Arch of Titus, which portrays a menorah as a component of the abundance from Jerusalem. Right up ítil today, the Talmud denies Jews from strolling under the Arch.

                                https://www.ancienthistorylists.com/...the-colosseum/
                                I don't know how "favorable" Roman bondage was.
                                I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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