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  • #31
    Working as an educator in a pubic high school, I've administered the SATs for over twenty nine years. Although the test itself hasn't changed too much over that time, the methods of cheating and gamesmanship have. Years ago one only had to ensure that an adequate space was provided between test takers to prevent roving eyes. Nowadays not only must adequate space be provided, but also cell phones monitored, IDs checked and re-checked, calculators (they allow calculators) approved for function, hallway monitors and cameras to prevent cheating while on breaks and bathroom trips.
    My high school provides SAT services for several school districts as well as a very prestigious private academy and I know for a fact that paid test takers have been used by some of the more affluent Asian students from that school.
    The whole sordid story is merely proof that honesty and integrity take a distant second place to hubris, avarice and greed.
    Last edited by Jose50; 14 Mar 19, 09:56.
    ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
    IN MARE IN COELO

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Salinator View Post
      Getting into a prestigious school is the main battle, once you're in you need only to finish the war but not getting kicked out and graduating, grade score not being an issue. Any diploma at all from a big name school is worth a lot more than being first in class and valedictorian from a small name school and the networking that is developed from attending that big name school open nearly all doors.

      It takes a combination of different things to be accepted. There are legitimate professional advisers work with the applicants on what they need to build up on their resumes from an earlier age even as early as grade school.
      That isn't the issue because the system you refer to have been suborned by rich parents and corrupt officials. The issue is corruption among big name colleges and qualified kids who were turned down because rich kids bought their way in. The colleges are not even going to punish the guilty kids, the way it''s looking so far, (they decide on a "case by case basis") because clearly money is the god of all things and ethics and morals are just in the way.
      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Salinator View Post

        Many of the prestigious schools will not accept anyone just on the basis of even a perfect SAT score. I was turned down at MIT even with a perfect GPA and a SAT score of 1580 which was the highest score attained up to that date. I was told I had did not have enough achievements and activity accomplishments outside of academics at school itself. All the school faculty at my high school and even the ones that I talked to at MIT were surprised. The admission board are usually very secretive and a lot of internal politics also come into play.
        So why did they dislike you so much?
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Salinator View Post

          Many of the prestigious schools will not accept anyone just on the basis of even a perfect SAT score. I was turned down at MIT even with a perfect GPA and a SAT score of 1580 which was the highest score attained up to that date. I was told I had did not have enough achievements and activity accomplishments outside of academics at school itself. All the school faculty at my high school and even the ones that I talked to at MIT were surprised. The admission board are usually very secretive and a lot of internal politics also come into play.
          Pick up the shattered pieces of your life and move on.
          We are not now that strength which in old days
          Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
          Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
          To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
            ...I will not click on a communist notreal news link...
            I don't open email from persons I don't know.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by III Corps View Post

              I don't open email from persons I don't know.
              Smart move.
              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                That isn't the issue because the system you refer to have been suborned by rich parents and corrupt officials. The issue is corruption among big name colleges and qualified kids who were turned down because rich kids bought their way in. The colleges are not even going to punish the guilty kids, the way it''s looking so far, (they decide on a "case by case basis") because clearly money is the god of all things and ethics and morals are just in the way.
                My experience is exactly why the parents are bribing. To build up the resume with activities, accomplishments, and achievement that did not truly exist for the applicant.

                The schools are looking for things like Student Body President, Debate Team Leader that winning record, multiple chevrons/letters/etc, winning some science fair, and so on.

                One of the ones caught in this investigation spent over a $1M to try to get her daughter into Yale, lying about being on the soccer team.

                Schools are also favoring applicants due to race/color/ethnicity. One example, Harvard has been sued and LOST against an Asian group for favoring Blacks and Hispanics with lower grades and scores than the Asians. But that would change anything, the Admission Board will just have to be more careful how they justify their selections. So Asians now know that they have to be much more than just bookworms and test killing machines.
                Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

                Prayers.

                BoRG

                http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Salinator View Post

                  My experience is exactly why the parents are bribing. To build up the resume with activities, accomplishments, and achievement that did not truly exist for the applicant.

                  The schools are looking for things like Student Body President, Debate Team Leader that winning record, multiple chevrons/letters/etc, winning some science fair, and so on.

                  One of the ones caught in this investigation spent over a $1M to try to get her daughter into Yale, lying about being on the soccer team.

                  Schools are also favoring applicants due to race/color/ethnicity. One example, Harvard has been sued and LOST against an Asian group for favoring Blacks and Hispanics with lower grades and scores than the Asians. But that would change anything, the Admission Board will just have to be more careful how they justify their selections. So Asians now know that they have to be much more than just bookworms and test killing machines.
                  What? Seven feet tall and able to dribble a basketball?

                  The system, like most American systems, is broken beyond repair. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
                  Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                  • #39
                    I would never be able to live with myself if I took or offered a bribe. Thats why I respect Harry Reid the longtime US politician whom had the ability to turn down a bribe from Jack Gordon a past figure of the American Entertainment industry. Reid attempted to Choke Gordon because he was so upset with the bribe offer.
                    Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM

                    Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                    George S Patton

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
                      Working as an educator in a pubic high school, I've administered the SATs for over twenty nine years. Although the test itself hasn't changed too much over that time, the methods of cheating and gamesmanship have. Years ago one only had to ensure that an adequate space was provided between test takers to prevent roving eyes. Nowadays not only must adequate space be provided, but also cell phones monitored, IDs checked and re-checked, calculators (they allow calculators) approved for function, hallway monitors and cameras to prevent cheating while on breaks and bathroom trips.
                      My high school provides SAT services for several school districts as well as a very prestigious private academy and I know for a fact that paid test takers have been used by some of the more affluent Asian students from that school.
                      The whole sordid story is merely proof that honesty and integrity take a distant second place to hubris, avarice and greed.
                      The bold-face is something I disagree with.

                      The problem is that SATs and college acceptance packages have become so inflated in value that the practice of cheating or bribery to get around them is simply inevitable.

                      When attending the right college, as has already been mentioned, becomes a ticket to success and security, parents are going to do what it takes to help their kids.

                      It is time for colleges to change their application standards to systems which have not been so hopelessly compromised. And, IMO, offer a 'go around' option in which a parent pays a staggering fee (on a par with the bribes involved) to simply skip those standards for their kid. These fees would then help reduce tuition costs for all students attending that school.

                      That would eliminate bribery and reduce the tuition burden.
                      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

                        The bold-face is something I disagree with.

                        The problem is that SATs and college acceptance packages have become so inflated in value that the practice of cheating or bribery to get around them is simply inevitable.

                        When attending the right college, as has already been mentioned, becomes a ticket to success and security, parents are going to do what it takes to help their kids.

                        It is time for colleges to change their application standards to systems which have not been so hopelessly compromised. And, IMO, offer a 'go around' option in which a parent pays a staggering fee (on a par with the bribes involved) to simply skip those standards for their kid. These fees would then help reduce tuition costs for all students attending that school.

                        That would eliminate bribery and reduce the tuition burden.
                        Hubris, avarice and greed are merely the result of trying to deal with what you call the overinflated value of college acceptance. It's really unfortunate that the honest old fashioned values of hard work, study and preparedness have taken a back seat to cheating, bribes and prevarications. What we are seeing happen in the college acceptance dance is a direct reflection of today's abandonment of truth, fairplay, honest effort and acceptance of fact.
                        ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
                        IN MARE IN COELO

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

                          The bold-face is something I disagree with.

                          The problem is that SATs and college acceptance packages have become so inflated in value that the practice of cheating or bribery to get around them is simply inevitable.

                          When attending the right college, as has already been mentioned, becomes a ticket to success and security, parents are going to do what it takes to help their kids.

                          It is time for colleges to change their application standards to systems which have not been so hopelessly compromised. And, IMO, offer a 'go around' option in which a parent pays a staggering fee (on a par with the bribes involved) to simply skip those standards for their kid. These fees would then help reduce tuition costs for all students attending that school.

                          That would eliminate bribery and reduce the tuition burden.
                          Your "go around fee" is nothing more than a thinly disguised bribe, and your concept makes a mockery of admission standards to begin with. Why bother to accept a degree from any school that takes money to allow substandard students to attend? That's where we get the idiots like AOC to begin with.

                          How about admission based on academic achievement? Skip the touchy-feely stuff and the athletics and start teaching instead. Einstein was a social misfit. A lot of geniuses are, but we need them a whole lot more than we need the children of the rich running things.
                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Jose50 View Post

                            Hubris, avarice and greed are merely the result of trying to deal with what you call the overinflated value of college acceptance. It's really unfortunate that the honest old fashioned values of hard work, study and preparedness have taken a back seat to cheating, bribes and prevarications. What we are seeing happen in the college acceptance dance is a direct reflection of today's abandonment of truth, fairplay, honest effort and acceptance of fact.
                            It's already here and has been for a long time. Do you really think that Lil' Bush Jr was qualified for his college degree? Obama? Ocasio-Cortez? Cohiba Bill?

                            All this scandal has done is to uncover the truth. Venality and corruption is the moral code of New Amerika.
                            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
                              Hubris, avarice and greed are merely the result of trying to deal with what you call the overinflated value of college acceptance. It's really unfortunate that the honest old fashioned values of hard work, study and preparedness have taken a back seat to cheating, bribes and prevarications. What we are seeing happen in the college acceptance dance is a direct reflection of today's abandonment of truth, fairplay, honest effort and acceptance of fact.
                              I disagree that it is a recent development.

                              And I would say that a lot of the problem falls on the public education system itself (the administration thereof); parents and students no longer believe in the quality or value of what is being taught in public schools. Public schools are simply a ticket punch system, and if the product have no value save by its absence, there's little wonder that parents and students are gaming the system.

                              Particularly when you see athletes getting special treatment. If the system itself is rigged for some students, you remove the stigma of other students working around the rules.

                              When the system does not value integrity, it cannot demand integrity.
                              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                              • #45
                                Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

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