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Why Won't the FAA Ground the Boeing 737 Max 8?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Massena View Post
    Because he doesn't know what he is talking about? He has no aviation experience, he isn't a pilot or a mechanic and he is just making it up once again.
    Are you?
    From what I read I do not think he's exactly wrong in saying aircraft are increasingly complex and thus increasingly requiring pilots with much more training / educational requirements than before.

    What is wrong with that statement? Are planes becoming simpler?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post

      Was the airbus fleet grounded because of that?
      No. Airbus did redesign the pitot tubes to ensure they won't ice up like they did on flight 447.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
        Didn't take long before TDS reared its ugly head...
        Well, if Manafort doesn't get a big sentence tomorrow, he needs new issues to hide his shame....
        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

        Comment


        • #19
          90% airline crashes are caused by pilot error ie not reading notams or manafactory bullitins or pilot experience...I read that the copilot right hand seat only had 200 hrs flight time in this type of aircraft...........Hell you need that amount of time to get a private license to fly a Cessna 150....

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          • #20
            Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

            From your link;
            "The president added in a second tweet: "I donít know about you, but I donít want Albert Einstein to be my pilot. I want great flying professionals that are allowed to easily and quickly take control of a plane!"
            ...

            How is this BS ?
            since albert Einstein has been dead for decades, I don't want him to pilot anything earthly.....

            B. s. in this case means "buried scientist"

            Sometimes the POTUS is easy to agree with
            Last edited by marktwain; 13 Mar 19, 13:27.
            The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by marktwain View Post
              since albert Einstein has been dead for decades, I don't want him to pilot anything earthly.....

              B. s. in this case means "buried scientist"

              Sometimes the POTUS is easy to agree with
              Then again, if he's in the realm and dimensions beyond our basic three, maybe he'd have perspectives we don't.

              Yeah, we should maybe present as " Albert Einstein " to emphasis the term is descriptive more than specific.

              While I don't have a lot of time behind the stick, I do know the few times I've been up and flying that it helps to have constant situational awareness. My few times have been mostly routine, but there's always the chance that "stuff could happen" and one should be prepared to deal with it.

              In these two cases involving the Max 8 version of the 737 it sounds (so far) as if it's a blend of too much in the hands of automatic avionics and maybe combined with not enough pilot training, knowledge, or ability to over-ride if needed. I'm not going hard and fast on this observation as new information may come out that might show we have a systems/design flaw that needs correction, but this happening in airlines outside the USA where training and qualifications sometimes are not as stringent as here, and the lower and limited complaints on this aircraft type among domestic users has me leaning, for now, that "pilot error" is a larger factor in these crashes.
              TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Bow View Post
                90% airline crashes are caused by pilot error ie not reading notams or manafactory bullitins or pilot experience...I read that the copilot right hand seat only had 200 hrs flight time in this type of aircraft...........Hell you need that amount of time to get a private license to fly a Cessna 150....
                PPL single engine (Cessna 150) requires minimum of 45 flying hours. Average I guesstimate at about 50+ to 60 hours.

                What's the best practice minimum amount of flying hours for the copilot on this type of aircraft before he is allowed to fly on commercial flights as a copilot? 200 hrs doesn't sound on the edge to me.
                "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return"

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                • #23
                  Trump finally does the right thing:

                  https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/new...cid=spartandhp

                  It took long enough...

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Rutger View Post

                    PPL single engine (Cessna 150) requires minimum of 45 flying hours. Average I guesstimate at about 50+ to 60 hours.

                    What's the best practice minimum amount of flying hours for the copilot on this type of aircraft before he is allowed to fly on commercial flights as a copilot? 200 hrs doesn't sound on the edge to me.
                    The thing is, and many of the public fail to know or understand, is that USA-FAA minimums are one thing, personal confidence and readiness another. FAA might say you need a minimum of X hours, but if the person/pilot doesn't feel confident to pay the costs of renting an aircraft and passing the test(which they also have to pay for) they might fly/practice much more than the minimum before attempting the test with hopes of passing.

                    Then there are numerous other licenses and endorsements to be acquired plus certifications in assorted aircraft types such that one could be looking at much more than a couple hundred hours of flight/logbook time before getting a chance to "test" and be hired by an airline.

                    As a rule, USA and most European airlines are for more demanding and stringent on pilot training, experience, qualification, ratings, etc. than the airlines of "other nations". Part of the reason the US military sees a 'pilot drain' as they opt for the more lucrative commercial aviation career track.

                    As a rule of thumb, for the USA;
                    "Commercial pilots must be 23 years old and have a minimum of 1,500 flight hours logged"
                    https://study.com/articles/Become_a_...eer_Guide.html
                    TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      A "basic" pilots license is for VFR - Visual Flight Rules.
                      Next step usually is for IFR - Instrument Flight Rules which covers night-time and foul weather weather(non-visual) conditions.
                      Then there is multi-engine rating.
                      Some might also include Instructors rating/license.
                      Then there are endorsements for assorted aircraft types and powerplants;

                      Commercial Pilot Requirements Frequently asked questions about how to become a commercial airline pilot.

                      https://atpflightschool.com/airline-...uirements.html
                      TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Nebfer View Post

                        Are you?
                        From what I read I do not think he's exactly wrong in saying aircraft are increasingly complex and thus increasingly requiring pilots with much more training / educational requirements than before.

                        What is wrong with that statement? Are planes becoming simpler?
                        I know a pilot for a major US airline who's a A320 Captain with only a HS diploma. He has over 22,000 hours of combined fixed/rotary wing time. There's a big difference between education and intelligence. The sad thing is that he couldn't get a job starting out in today's industry because he doesn't have a 4 year degree.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Massena View Post
                          Trump finally does the right thing:

                          https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/new...cid=spartandhp

                          It took long enough...
                          I would hope the decission was made by professionals at the FAA and not by politicians at the White House.
                          "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
                          Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

                            Then again, if he's in the realm and dimensions beyond our basic three, maybe he'd have perspectives we don't.

                            Yeah, we should maybe present as " Albert Einstein " to emphasis the term is descriptive more than specific.

                            While I don't have a lot of time behind the stick, I do know the few times I've been up and flying that it helps to have constant situational awareness. My few times have been mostly routine, but there's always the chance that "stuff could happen" and one should be prepared to deal with it.

                            In these two cases involving the Max 8 version of the 737 it sounds (so far) as if it's a blend of too much in the hands of automatic avionics and maybe combined with not enough pilot training, knowledge, or ability to over-ride if needed. I'm not going hard and fast on this observation as new information may come out that might show we have a systems/design flaw that needs correction, but this happening in airlines outside the USA where training and qualifications sometimes are not as stringent as here, and the lower and limited complaints on this aircraft type among domestic users has me leaning, for now, that "pilot error" is a larger factor in these crashes.
                            I would not be surprised if it was not something to do with the software logic (ala the Asiana 777 the crashed at SFO a few years back) that these pilots were not aware of. Given that both the crashes came "in the Third World," and there have not been so much as a whiff of the same thing in the U.S. and "Western" nations, I suspect the training (or maintenance) was very much subpar.

                            Edit: New story tells that at least four complaints of the autopilot suddenly pitching down on take off occurred in Q4 of last year.

                            https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-pilots...162400954.html


                            Tuebor
                            Last edited by Tuebor; 13 Mar 19, 21:47.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by johns624 View Post

                              I know a pilot for a major US airline who's a A320 Captain with only a HS diploma. He has over 22,000 hours of combined fixed/rotary wing time. There's a big difference between education and intelligence. The sad thing is that he couldn't get a job starting out in today's industry because he doesn't have a 4 year degree.
                              That's interesting. Back in college I knew a guy who was a flight engineer on a 727, but only had an Associates degree, so he was back in school to get his Bachelors in order to get a pilot rating.

                              Tuebor

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                              • #30
                                Isnít this discussion illuminating ?
                                When Obama was in office every single decision made by any government agency was not reflective of Obama. Remember the EPA mishandling of and mismanagement of the waste ponds in Colorado?
                                Not Obamaís fault, (and it shouldnít have been).
                                Black Life Matters rioting? Not Obamaís fault, even though he didnít speak out against rioters, multiple officers in Dallas killed by snipers.
                                Not Obamaís fault.
                                Guns being sold to Mexican drug cartels, nobodies fault. The Irsn deal,
                                At every stage of Obamaís tenure never once did he get blamed for any action taken by any Government Agency.
                                Lets take a stroll down memory lane to the good ole 1990s, Ruby Ridge, Waco, Whitewater, North Korean Nuclear deal, nothing stuck to him, (Impeachment for staining a dress, impeachment meant nothing).
                                Today, if a employee of a government agency gets a paper cut you can bet our leftist would blame Trump.
                                Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                                Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

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