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  • #61
    Originally posted by Nichols View Post

    To be clear, I respect Messena outside of this forum. He is an honorable man, I know this from my artillery buddies one of which is a Colonel another one was a Master Gunnery Sergeant. They both speak highly of Kevin. Then again they are only gun bunnies....

    I also have a Tanker buddy on Facebook that is a retired LtCol with the same thought patterns as Messena.

    I don't know what drives them behind posting as they do but I do know in real life they are honorable men.

    The are schooled in diplomacy as is my daughter that was part of the hosting party with the president of the Ukraine two days ago on her ship.



    Now back to rebutting Messena...
    I respect your views and I'll heed your word on it. But I will say I have a hard time giving respect when the Trump attacks get into "Trump did this and he is bad so you are bad too for voting for him and guilty by association". It's very hard to muster even a scrap of respect when that talk gets going. But I'll do my best to respect the man if not the views.
    A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post

      I respect your views and I'll heed your word on it. But I will say I have a hard time giving respect when the Trump attacks get into "Trump did this and he is bad so you are bad too for voting for him and guilty by association". It's very hard to muster even a scrap of respect when that talk gets going. But I'll do my best to respect the man if not the views.
      The only thing I can do is say again.....

      Back to rebutting Messena.

      Never say repeat to a gun bunny except if you are sure...

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post

        I respect your views and I'll heed your word on it. But I will say I have a hard time giving respect when the Trump attacks get into "Trump did this and he is bad so you are bad too for voting for him and guilty by association". It's very hard to muster even a scrap of respect when that talk gets going. But I'll do my best to respect the man if not the views.
        I hear you brother.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Persephone View Post

          This is also another mess of Obama's that Trump had to clean up.

          Otto's family doesn't hold Trump responsible, why should you or anyone else? The Warmbier family is the only ones who have the right to say anything. They haven't, have they?


          More on Trump's stupidity on Otto Warmier:

          https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/28/polit...-un/index.html

          https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/28/opini...tis/index.html

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post

            Sometimes I wonder if part of the problem with Trump critics is a complete lack of understanding in how diplomacy and dealing works.

            First, words are formalities in eastern culture and what we would call butt kissing they would call politeness. From Afganistan to Japan you could be negotiating with someone who hates the ground you walk on and they'll be just as pleasant as can be and they expect the same courtesy in return. None of it's genuine. They could go back to plotting your death the moment you leave the room. But everyone is polite for the cameras. And western business dealing isn't much different. Words mean little compared to results here as well. A businessman could smile to a sworn enemy. The only difference is he could also call his friend an @$$hole because over here bombast has negotiating cred too and the insult would be nothing personal. But the bottom line is that if you take either Kim or Trump's words at face value you're being a sucker. For both parties it's all a dance toward an end game. The words are just words. If Trump appears to be kissing ass, he's playing cards, not expressing genuine sentiment.

            If you wear your feelings and intentions on your sleeve, you won't even win a game of Diplomacy.

            ​​​​​​
            WIH do you know about diplomacy that a retire military officer doesn't know much more about from first hand knowledge.
            "Ask not what your country can do for you"

            Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

            you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post

              WIH do you know about diplomacy that a retire military officer doesn't know much more about from first hand knowledge.
              Well for starters I have first hand knowledge myself. Working in missions requires me to have an education in local customs and government. I've done a lot of work in India and I'm well acquainted with cultures that put a high premium on politeness. I also work with people who handle other regions including Korea and have their insight to draw on as well. So I'm not speaking from ignorance.

              That said I don't think you need a degree to understand that in negotiation and diplomacy you use flattery you don't seriously mean as a tactic for putting the man across the table at ease and easing him into working with you. That's not an advanced concept you need a college education to understand. And a better question might be "how is a retired military officer with first hand knowledge not understanding that?"

              Your counterpoint was an attempted appeal to authority. What you need to do is present a counterpoint on how Trump's flattery tactics are the wrong course of action and what you feel should be done.

              That last bit is particularly important since you Trump critics were notoriously pissy when he was being bellicose and are now griping over him being polite. Show us your plan.
              A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

              Comment


              • #67
                20190226edhan-a.jpg?resize=807x807.jpg
                "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post

                  WIH do you know about diplomacy that a retire military officer doesn't know much more about from first hand knowledge.
                  This attempt to appeal to authority is so ironic. Military officers in general are not diplomats. The job security lies in the fact that they are a necessary evil should diplomacy fail. Does Massena have a lot of first hand experience negotiating with his potential targets regarding their positions before his artillery bombardment?
                  Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

                  Prayers.

                  BoRG

                  http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

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                  • #69
                    Have you been in the military?

                    I rest my case. You don't no what your talking about.
                    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                    you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                      Have you been in the military?

                      I rest my case. You don't no what your talking about.
                      So about that plan.....

                      Do you have one or are you just here to whine?

                      Trump is employing a common deal making strategy. If you disagree, come up with a better plan. Until then your criticism counts for cat droppings.
                      A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Massena View Post

                        Did you ever consider that the North Koreans had 'perfected' their missiles with their testing and weren't talked out of anything? Almost forgot, the new party line is that we believe whatever Kim tells us as Trump is now doing for his buddy...
                        They weren’t testing missles; they were testing bombs underground. Have you considered that Trump has emotionally pounded you and you can’t say one positive thing about him? Even if it makes you look like an idiot, you have to tag along with liberal pundits who have NO clue what they’re talking about.
                        "It is a fine fox chase, my boys"

                        "It is well that war is so terrible-we would grow too fond of it"

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                        • #72
                          It looks as if the GOP is not happy with Trump's take on Otto Warmier:

                          https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartandhp

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by American87 View Post

                            They weren’t testing missles; they were testing bombs underground. Have you considered that Trump has emotionally pounded you and you can’t say one positive thing about him? Even if it makes you look like an idiot, you have to tag along with liberal pundits who have NO clue what they’re talking about.
                            And just how has Trump 'emotionally pounded' me. The person in this conversation who has no idea what he's talking about is you-along with Trump.

                            You're in bad company, boyo.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Massena View Post

                              And just how has Trump 'emotionally pounded' me. The person in this conversation who has no idea what he's talking about is you-along with Trump.

                              You're in bad company, boyo.
                              I’d expect that response from a third grader, not a supposed veteran and school teacher. Trump really has pigeon holed you.
                              "It is a fine fox chase, my boys"

                              "It is well that war is so terrible-we would grow too fond of it"

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                The USA already works with controversial countries. In terms of diplomacy, NK needs to be respected that is if the USA is serious about working with North Korea which it might not be. The whole thing could be a smokescreen to distract from real issues facing the USA such as loss of dignity and good factory jobs and the fact that the USA under Trump is working with the Taliban. What better way to scare poor people then to say hey this or that country might nuke us when the real issue is jobs.

                                People make mistakes. In going forward President Trump needs to immediately stop working with the Taliban and as for NK, treat NK like you would treat England just tell the Communists they can keep their military but the only way the deal works is if NK becomes more liberal... And dont expect Pelosi or Schumer to do anything about this...The Democrats and Republicans of today are not what they used to be....our country has work to do. I have respect for Pelosi and Schumer but in the past few months these politicians have been making mistakes but they can redeem themselves.
                                Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                                Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                                George S Patton

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