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  • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Why don't those that claim all these "far Right" political groups are such show the reasons they should be put there and not on the Left. Nationalism and racism won't cut the mustard for that.

    After all, the far Right is generally defined as very independent, anti-government, opposed to Socialism, anti-tax, and pro gun.
    The general descriptor that I was taught when I was young was that in general on the right you have as little government as possible basically anarchy, and on the left side is total government, like Communism.
    But that dose have it's problems, it's really more of a cross shaped, with Conservationism and liberalism on one axis and total government and no government on the other.

    So how could you have a heavy handed government like Nazi Germany and Fascism be right wing? Though one dose have to note that the center point of that line in the US is at a different place than in Europe...
    ---------------------------------------------
    Edit:

    On a side note that ADL graph that has been poster here (in another thread I believe), that shows that most of the extremists are right wing, has the interesting quirk it has 5 catagorys, 3 of them are listed as right wing yet the left only has one, these right wing catagorys are more properly subcatagorys (it's Islam, Left Wing, Right Wing (anti government), Right Wing (other), and Right Wing (white Supremacist)).

    They also list White Supremacists as Right wing, yet they list Black Supremacists (I.e. black panthers) as left wing... (their are white supremacists that believe in socialism you know).

    They also have Right Wing Propaganda incidents in their lists their are none on the left...
    Theirs also a few cases where of who they listed as a "sovereign citizen" murdering some one as a right wing attack...

    A few other Right Wing (other) catagorys one would think how is this "Right Wing"
    They have a guy murdering his father after an argument as a Right wing extremist...
    A Home invasion that resulted in the death of two was counted as a right wing extremist and Terrorist attack...

    Amusingly they have a incident for the City I live in, an anti Semitic attack in 2016, but the description is "confidential". Ok if you say so...
    Last edited by Nebfer; 19 Mar 19, 14:34.

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    • Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post
      That's what Donnie says. Lot's more than 75 alt-righters.
      You counted them ?
      Who is number 76 , number 77, number 78,etc,etc ?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

        No sht? Well, that sure explains Nasser's security service's . . . . interrogation methods.
        Methods that were used against the Muslim Brotherhood
        The same Nasser was supported in 1956 by Eisenhower, but two years later ,he was supported by Nikita K.The shoes whacker .

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post

          Overzealous nationalism is the reason they were all far right the far left hates nationalism and culture which they try to destroy to make their socialism work,socialism in the Nazis name was only a ploy to attract more members from the left who they purged later on.
          American libertarianism isnít the only example of the far right.
          Not true. The far Left when you deal with Communists hates Nationalism. Communists are Internationalists. Fascists, which yes, includes the Nazis, are [I]Nationalists./[I] Everything else about Fascism lines up completely on the Left.

          But, because of that difference the Communists hate Fascists and vice versa, as if the Left were ever truly united in their views. Thus, today with neo-Communism still going strong and everybody pretty much hating Fascists, the Communist faction of the Left has sold the bill of goods that Fascism is on the Right and people have swallowed that hook, line, and sinker.

          The Left all-too-often is able to control the dialogue on this stuff and keeps themselves a moving target coming up with new versions and terms of the same old line of authoritarian socialist crap in a new box.

          The quick versions:



          Here, I'll even put up a rebuttal, without comment other than that it opens with an ad hominem:



          Oh, that's only one of many like it. Some of these are so over the top stupid I couldn't even finish the video. So, I tried to chose the best of the bunch.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

            Not true. The far Left when you deal with Communists hates Nationalism. Communists are Internationalists. Fascists, which yes, includes the Nazis, are [I]Nationalists./[I] Everything else about Fascism lines up completely on the Left.

            But, because of that difference the Communists hate Fascists and vice versa, as if the Left were ever truly united in their views. Thus, today with neo-Communism still going strong and everybody pretty much hating Fascists, the Communist faction of the Left has sold the bill of goods that Fascism is on the Right and people have swallowed that hook, line, and sinker.

            The Left all-too-often is able to control the dialogue on this stuff and keeps themselves a moving target coming up with new versions and terms of the same old line of authoritarian socialist crap in a new box.

            The quick versions:



            Here, I'll even put up a rebuttal, without comment other than that it opens with an ad hominem:



            Oh, that's only one of many like it. Some of these are so over the top stupid I couldn't even finish the video. So, I tried to chose the best of the bunch.
            All the far Left hates nationalism thatís one of the things that identifies a far leftie they want a world with no cultural identities and for everyone to call each other comrade.
            The far right are against sharing any of the countries wealth throughout society especially with the poor and disabled they imprisoned and killed anyone who did want to when they could.
            Communism is called a dictatorship of the poor though their leadership lives better thatís the opposite of what the Nazis and facists were doing.

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            • Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post

              All the far Left hates nationalism thatís one of the things that identifies a far leftie they want a world with no cultural identities and for everyone to call each other comrade.
              The far right are against sharing any of the countries wealth throughout society especially with the poor and disabled they imprisoned and killed anyone who did want to when they could.
              Communism is called a dictatorship of the poor though their leadership lives better thatís the opposite of what the Nazis and facists were doing.
              But, the far Right doesn't want big government, Socialism, or any of the rest of the trappings of Fascism or any other political system of the Left. By focusing solely on Nationalism and racism, the Left makes it appear that Fascism is on the Right when 90%+ of it is Leftist by obvious definition.
              Actually, German Nazism was exactly a dictatorship of the poor. It sought to, in the end, return Germany to a rural agrarian economy of what were essentially peasants working the land. Hitler in Mein Kampf wrote of the worthlessness of a university education and how for the masses high school was more than sufficient.
              Both the Communists and Fascists rounded up groups for (variously) extermination, deportation, imprisonment, slave labor, or whatever. But, I don't see that as a Left - Right thing, even if the Left does far, far more of it. That's just the result of a dictatorship ensuring its continued power and existence coupled with the leadership's personal prejudices.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                But, the far Right doesn't want big government, Socialism, or any of the rest of the trappings of Fascism or any other political system of the Left. By focusing solely on Nationalism and racism, the Left makes it appear that Fascism is on the Right when 90%+ of it is Leftist by obvious definition.
                Actually, German Nazism was exactly a dictatorship of the poor. It sought to, in the end, return Germany to a rural agrarian economy of what were essentially peasants working the land. Hitler in Mein Kampf wrote of the worthlessness of a university education and how for the masses high school was more than sufficient.
                Both the Communists and Fascists rounded up groups for (variously) extermination, deportation, imprisonment, slave labor, or whatever. But, I don't see that as a Left - Right thing, even if the Left does far, far more of it. That's just the result of a dictatorship ensuring its continued power and existence coupled with the leadership's personal prejudices.
                Both sides use a large government to control their people it was and is how that power is being used for what defines them the Soviets and Nazis were in opposite directions in ideology the Soviets provided social services for everyone while the Nazis didnít only for the Germans that were accepted by the government as deemed fit their only commonality was that they were both authoritarian.
                Last edited by Snowshoveler; 19 Mar 19, 17:41.

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                • Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post

                  Both sides use a large government to control their people it was and is how that power is being used for what defines them the Soviets and Nazis were in opposite directions in ideology the Soviets provided social services for everyone while the Nazis didnít their only commonality was that they were both authoritarian.
                  Wrong. The Left uses large government. The Right wants, in the extreme, no government. A good example of someone on the far Right is the Sovereign Citizen movement. That's very much a far Right thing.

                  As for what the Nazis / Fascists and Communists wanted. They mostly wanted exactly the same thing.

                  Communists wanted true Socialism as an economic system. Fascists were fine with Statist Capitalism. Both are forms of Socialism. The difference is that Communist Socialism had the government controlling both the economy and means of production. Statist Capitalism has the government controlling the economy while the means of production are left in private hands. So in the first, the government runs-- ruins?-- everything, in the second the government runs the economy and companies make what the government tells them to make.

                  Both were into life time indoctrination of the masses. From school (today it's "Critical Pedagogy"), to youth organizations (Young Pioneers or Hitler Youth... same thing different name) to vacations...

                  Look up Prora. The Nazis did the same thing the Soviets did in making vacation time very much a government run and controlled experience.

                  I have no idea why the Left loves trains so much, but they do and both the Nazis and Soviets did that. Public transit for all!

                  Volkswagen v. Trabant v. Lada... A crappy car for the masses.

                  Fascism and Communism both push for and have nationalized healthcare. The Germans and Italians both had nationalized healthcare under Fascism. While the Fascists used Statist Capitalism for part of their system, it still amounts to "single payer."

                  Across the board, only the details change. The Fascists were every bit into big government, centralized control of people's lives, and doing it in more or less the same way as the Communists.

                  Read up on the Red Black Alliance sometime

                  https://archive.org/stream/RedBlackA...ation_djvu.txt

                  Fascists and Communists had more in common than not.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                    Wrong. The Left uses large government. The Right wants, in the extreme, no government. A good example of someone on the far Right is the Sovereign Citizen movement. That's very much a far Right thing.

                    As for what the Nazis / Fascists and Communists wanted. They mostly wanted exactly the same thing.

                    Communists wanted true Socialism as an economic system. Fascists were fine with Statist Capitalism. Both are forms of Socialism. The difference is that Communist Socialism had the government controlling both the economy and means of production. Statist Capitalism has the government controlling the economy while the means of production are left in private hands. So in the first, the government runs-- ruins?-- everything, in the second the government runs the economy and companies make what the government tells them to make.

                    Both were into life time indoctrination of the masses. From school (today it's "Critical Pedagogy"), to youth organizations (Young Pioneers or Hitler Youth... same thing different name) to vacations...

                    Look up Prora. The Nazis did the same thing the Soviets did in making vacation time very much a government run and controlled experience.

                    I have no idea why the Left loves trains so much, but they do and both the Nazis and Soviets did that. Public transit for all!

                    Volkswagen v. Trabant v. Lada... A crappy car for the masses.

                    Fascism and Communism both push for and have nationalized healthcare. The Germans and Italians both had nationalized healthcare under Fascism. While the Fascists used Statist Capitalism for part of their system, it still amounts to "single payer."

                    Across the board, only the details change. The Fascists were every bit into big government, centralized control of people's lives, and doing it in more or less the same way as the Communists.

                    Read up on the Red Black Alliance sometime

                    https://archive.org/stream/RedBlackA...ation_djvu.txt

                    Fascists and Communists had more in common than not.
                    43% of Germans voted in 1933 for the Nazis 25% voted for the communists the Nazis are who the Nationalists voted for.
                    Again big government isnít just the domain of the Left itís usefull by anyone to run a dictatorship with.
                    Last edited by Snowshoveler; 19 Mar 19, 18:28.

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                    • I consider myself a Nationalist. which means I love the USA, nothing else, end of Story!
                      Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

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                      • Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
                        I consider myself a Nationalist. which means I love the USA, nothing else, end of Story!
                        Are you sure your not mixing that up with Patriot? Like you I love my country but can admit it isn't perfect.
                        "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                        Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                        youíre entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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                        • Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post

                          43% of Germans voted in 1933 for the Nazis 25% voted for the communists the Nazis are who the Nationalists voted for.
                          Again big government isnít just the domain of the Left itís usefull by anyone to run a dictatorship with.
                          Wrong figure : the KPD got 12.3 % in March 1933 .
                          And, the fact that the Nazis got the votes of the nationalists,does not mean that the other parties got the votes of the non nationalists .
                          The KPD also opposed Versailles (at the order of the Kremlin ) .

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                          • Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post

                            Are you sure your not mixing that up with Patriot? Like you I love my country but can admit it isn't perfect.
                            I agree, but I would add that as an American I will put the interests of America ahead of those of other nations.

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                            • The difference between right wingers in Europe and right wingers in the USA is that the European ones accepred big government easier than in the US . After all, Eueopean nations were constructed by big states .
                              Bismarck, not a socialists,increased the power of the Prussian state : railways were state property . The same in Franquist Spain .
                              The Third Reich was a special case : there were privatisations in 1933 but also the state Hermann Goering Werke in 1937 .
                              Conservatives were in the first row to build the foundations of the Welfare State : Joe and Neville CHamberlain .British coalmines wrere de facto already nationalized before WWII .

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                              • Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                                Wrong figure : the KPD got 12.3 % in March 1933 .
                                And, the fact that the Nazis got the votes of the nationalists,does not mean that the other parties got the votes of the non nationalists .
                                The KPD also opposed Versailles (at the order of the Kremlin ) .
                                Iím wrong about the communist vote number but together with the Social Democrats the Left got 30% of the vote thereís not a whole lot of Nationalists that vote for them the Nazis got their votes.

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