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  • #61
    Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post

    Agreed.
    Bowe Bergdahl served as did the murdering terrorist Major Hassan and the fellow who betrayed US secrets who underwent sex change surgery (whose name escapes me).

    While I respect those who served, doing so doesn't automatically mean the person is a patriot.
    Exactly.
    Between this and AJR's preceding it you two have nailed the topic. Many whom make a career in the military follow on with some other Guv'mint job and/or have been "civil" servants all along. Many share the trait that in the private sector where being really productive and profitable matters, they would fail.
    TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Massena View Post
      Nationalism was one of the causes of War I and is not the same thing as patriotism. To equate the two is not to understand the historical problems of nationalism or being a nationalist.
      Would seem to depend a lot on one's perspective and other context. Doing a web-search on "nationalism" produces several links and definitions that bounce on both sides of the fence as well as some overlap with patriotism. Again, Wiki provides a good start point from which to go further, note the part in red that I highlight in the last paragraph;
      ...
      Nationalism is a political, social, and economic ideology and movement characterized by the promotion of the interests of a particular nation,[1] especially with the aim of gaining and maintaining the nation's sovereignty (self-governance) over its homeland. Nationalism holds that each nation should govern itself, free from outside interference (self-determination), that a nation is a natural and ideal basis for a polity,[2] and that the nation is the only rightful source of political power (popular sovereignty).[1][3] It further aims to build and maintain a single national identity—based on shared social characteristics such as culture, language, religion, politics, and belief in a shared singular history[4][5][page needed]—and to promote national unity or solidarity.[1] Nationalism, therefore, seeks to preserve and foster a nation's traditional culture, and cultural revivals have been associated with nationalist movements.[6] It also encourages pride in national achievements, and is closely linked to patriotism.[7][page needed] Nationalism is often combined with other ideologies, such as conservatism (national conservatism) or socialism (socialist nationalism) for example.[2]

      Nationalism as an ideology is modern. Throughout history, people have had an attachment to their kin group and traditions, to territorial authorities and to their homeland, but nationalism did not become a widely-recognized concept until the 18th century.[8] There are three paradigms for understanding the origins and basis of nationalism. Primordialism (perennialism) proposes that there have always been nations and that nationalism is a natural phenomenon. Ethnosymbolism explains nationalism as a dynamic, evolutionary phenomenon and stresses the importance of symbols, myths and traditions in the development of nations and nationalism. Modernism proposes that nationalism is a recent social phenomenon that needs the socio-economic structures of modern society to exist.[9]

      There are various definitions of a "nation", however, which leads to different strands of nationalism. It can be a belief that citizenship in a state should be limited to one ethnic, cultural, religious or identity group; or that multinationality in a state should mean the right to express and exercise national identity even by minorities.[10][not in citation given] The adoption of national identity in terms of historical development has often been a response by influential groups unsatisfied with traditional identities due to mismatch between their defined social order and the experience of that social order by its members, resulting in an anomie that nationalists seek to resolve.[11] This anomie results in a society reinterpreting identity, retaining elements deemed acceptable and removing elements deemed unacceptable, to create a unified community.[11] This development may be the result of internal structural issues or the result of resentment by an existing group or groups towards other communities, especially foreign powers that are (or are deemed to be) controlling them.[11]National symbols and flags, national anthems, national languages, national myths and other symbols of national identity are highly important in nationalism.[12][13][14][15]

      In practice, nationalism can be seen as positive or negative depending on context and individual outlook. Nationalism has been an important driver in independence movements, such as the Greek Revolution, the Irish Revolution, and the Zionist movement that created modern Israel. Conversely, radical nationalism combined with racial hatred was also a key factor in the Holocaust perpetrated by Nazi Germany. More recently, nationalism was an important driver of the controversial annexation of Crimea by Russia. Nationalist economic policies have also been cited as causes for the Opium Wars between the British Empire and the Qing dynasty, and for the severity of the Great Depression in the 1930s


      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism

      Also note this from the Wiki article/link;


      TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

      Comment


      • #63
        Nationalism was not the cause of WWI; it is one of the Massena inventions;he has a lot of them in stock;he uses them for his lessons at the Deep State academy .

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by ljadw View Post
          Nationalism was not the cause of WWI; it is one of the Massena inventions;he has a lot of them in stock;he uses them for his lessons at the Deep State academy .
          Guess again, genius:

          https://www.thoughtco.com/causes-tha...d-war-i-105515

          Your responses indicate that you have an intellectual level a few feet below whale ****.
          We are not now that strength which in old days
          Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
          Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
          To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Massena View Post

            Guess again, genius:

            https://www.thoughtco.com/causes-tha...d-war-i-105515

            Your responses indicate that you have an intellectual level a few feet below whale ****.
            Now why you go insult whales*** like that.

            Rimshot
            I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Massena View Post

              Guess again, genius:

              https://www.thoughtco.com/causes-tha...d-war-i-105515

              Your responses indicate that you have an intellectual level a few feet below whale ****.
              5 Key Causes of World War I

              04 of 05

              Nationalism

              https://www.thoughtco.com/causes-tha...d-war-i-105515
              TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

              Comment


              • #67
                WWI was caused by the German attempt/willingness to dominate the European continent, something which was not new, France also tried to do this, Spain , the SU , Austria and these attempts were not caused by nationalism : there was no French nationalism when Louis XIV tried to dominate Europe .
                For Germany the 20 th Century would be the German Century,as was the 19th Century the British Century and the 18th the French one .
                ''Auf deutschen Wesen soll die Welt genesen '' is not an expression of nationalism .

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Massena View Post

                  Guess again, genius:

                  https://www.thoughtco.com/causes-tha...d-war-i-105515

                  Your responses indicate that you have an intellectual level a few feet below whale ****.
                  Your source is only Deep State nonsense .
                  ONE example "there was no (causal /or not ) relation between the murder of FF by CITIZENS of AH and the outbreak of WWI .
                  AH did not declare war on Serbia because of Sarajevo ,its declaration of war had other causes . And its declaration of war did not result in a declaration of war by Russia.
                  Thus stop your indoctrination : this is not the Deep State agitprop school .

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Those who attack the idea of nationalism,attack the idea of nation : they are internationalist liberals, enemies of the people ,as said justifiedly Donald Trump .

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

                      Benedict Arnold served in the US military. So did Robert E Lee.

                      Most of the liberals thumping their chests about service are simply military bureaucrats and clerks who were drawing welfare in uniform.
                      Liberalism = disloyalty

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                        Now why you go insult whales*** like that.

                        Rimshot
                        Yes, I should be more discreet and discriminating.
                        We are not now that strength which in old days
                        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                          Liberalism = disloyalty
                          As the US Founding Fathers were the liberals of their day, once again you have proven yourself clueless.
                          We are not now that strength which in old days
                          Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                          Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                          To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

                            Benedict Arnold served in the US military. So did Robert E Lee.

                            Most of the liberals thumping their chests about service are simply military bureaucrats and clerks who were drawing welfare in uniform.
                            Once again, your ignorance is overwhelming whatever common sense that you may have. And are you once again insulting people who have served and served with both distinction and honor? Your comments are disingenuous as well as inaccurate.
                            We are not now that strength which in old days
                            Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                            Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                            To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

                              Benedict Arnold served in the US military. So did Robert E Lee.

                              Most of the liberals thumping their chests about service are simply military bureaucrats and clerks who were drawing welfare in uniform.
                              John Wilkes Booth,Lee Harvey Oswald,Lee Marvin,Oliver Stone,Al Gore,John Kerry...
                              Last edited by Snowshoveler; 25 Feb 19, 17:10.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Massena View Post

                                As the US Founding Fathers were the liberals of their day, once again you have proven yourself clueless.
                                Liberal 240+ years ago in our Nation's founding was opposite of what it is now. Back then it was "government leave us alone" now it's "government is solution to all problems".
                                TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

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