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  • #16
    Originally posted by American87 View Post
    Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
    ...but, I didn't say ''white'' nationalist, merely 'nationalist'. In an earlier post Mr. Massena referred to President Trump styling himself a "nationalist". The adjective 'white' was not used in that case.
    Massena thinks "nationalist" means "white supremacist."
    Pretty soon fireworks will be banned on the 4th of July, because they're racist.
    Here's where it gets confusing. If one is an "American nationalist," then shouldn't one advocate for all of the US' peoples -- whether their ancestors hailed from European backgrounds, African backgrounds, Latin American backgrounds, et al? If a "white nationalist" tailors his rhetoric to appeal to Caucasian Americans only, then he's ignoring a fair share of the nation's population. So how can a "white nationalist" be an American nationalist?

    And yes, I do believe that Donald Trump has tailored his rhetoric to appeal to whites by denigrating non-whites.



    And a pretty ugly segment of the electorate seems to enjoy that kind of rhetoric, and they don't feel shy about adding to it.



    That's neither American nationalistic nor patriotic.
    I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Jose50 View Post

      ...but, I didn't say ''white'' nationalist, merely 'nationalist'. In an earlier post Mr. Massena referred to President Trump styling himself a "nationalist". The adjective 'white' was not used in that case.
      Exactly! And the point I was trying to make. Kevin is on record of stating "nationalist" is a term of prejudice and bias and implies racist. This is at odds with most dictionary definitions and also his own charges towards some posts of not having the best interest of the country=nation(nationalist) in mind.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

        Here's where it gets confusing. If one is an "American nationalist," then shouldn't one advocate for all of the US' peoples -- whether their ancestors hailed from European backgrounds, African backgrounds, Latin American backgrounds, et al? If a "white nationalist" tailors his rhetoric to appeal to Caucasian Americans only, then he's ignoring a fair share of the nation's population. So how can a "white nationalist" be an American nationalist?

        And yes, I do believe that Donald Trump has tailored his rhetoric to appeal to whites by denigrating non-whites.



        And a pretty ugly segment of the electorate seems to enjoy that kind of rhetoric, and they don't feel shy about adding to it.



        That's neither American nationalistic nor patriotic.
        Nationalists and patriots are primarily from the culture that dominates a country like Whites in America who created the country other cultures can be Nationalists too but they donít overwhelmingly tend to be,mostly they are a counter culture with a minority of them being Nationalists.
        Itís wrong to say only one culture is Nationalistic like some in the dominant culture wants it to be but itís not completely untrue.

        Comment


        • #19

          Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post
          Itís wrong to say only one culture is Nationalistic like some in the dominant culture wants it to be but itís not completely untrue.
          Don't you have any idea how twisting your words and thoughts around like this can harm your own self?


          Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better.

          When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity.

          To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control.

          I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to
          .Theodore Dalrymple

          "Why is the Rum gone?"

          -Captain Jack

          Comment


          • #20
            When I enlisted in the Navy I raised my hand and swore an oath that I
            ...do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same. So help me God.

            When I was (honorably discharged) separated from the military (lo, those many years ago) I was never apprised of the negation of said oath so I still consider myself bound by it and thus I am a nationalist for the United States of America.
            ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
            IN MARE IN COELO

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post
              Nationalists and patriots are primarily from the culture that dominates a country like Whites in America who created the country other cultures can be Nationalists too but they donít overwhelmingly tend to be,mostly they are a counter culture with a minority of them being Nationalists.
              Itís wrong to say only one culture is Nationalistic like some in the dominant culture wants it to be but itís not completely untrue.
              An American nationalism can not be like a European nationalism. An American nationalism can not represent a single tribe, ethnicity, or race and unite it with the very land itself, a la Germany's Blut und Boden. From our earliest foundation stories, our antecedents uniformly hailed from various different lands far away from this one, and journeyed great distances to reach this land. Therefore an American nationalism has to embrace all of US' precursor and component peoples. Therefore -- for good or ill -- African-Americans, for example, are as much a part of the founding and the development of this country as are any other demographic, and consequently, any kind of American nationalism -- Americanism, if you will -- has to include and promote their stories, as well as including and promoting the stories of the Jamestown settlers, for instance. If their contributions to the development of the US are deliberately ignored or diminished, if the interests of African-Americans today are deliberately ignored or devalued, then those are not acts of American nationalism. They're acts of a wholly different kind of philosophy, not at all consistent with the promotion of the American nation or her people.
              I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                An American nationalism can not be like a European nationalism. An American nationalism can not represent a single tribe, ethnicity, or race and unite it with the very land itself, a la Germany's Blut und Boden. From our earliest foundation stories, our antecedents uniformly hailed from various different lands far away from this one, and journeyed great distances to reach this land. Therefore an American nationalism has to embrace all of US' precursor and component peoples. Therefore -- for good or ill -- African-Americans, for example, are as much a part of the founding and the development of this country as are any other demographic, and consequently, any kind of American nationalism -- Americanism, if you will -- has to include and promote their stories, as well as including and promoting the stories of the Jamestown settlers, for instance. If their contributions to the development of the US are deliberately ignored or diminished, if the interests of African-Americans today are deliberately ignored or devalued, then those are not acts of American nationalism. They're acts of a wholly different kind of philosophy, not at all consistent with the promotion of the American nation or her people.
                The US was created by Europeans on European cultures,customs and laws for over 400 years itís made up of many different European cultures Whites of all cultures have mostly homogenized into one culture without some asking for special treatment some non European cultures havenít joined in,the US is turning into a multiculturalist society instead of the melting pot that has been the norm until recently since liberals and lefties have been trying to fundamentally change how America works for political gain.
                Saying that America isnít a White country goes against your nature and history.
                Last edited by Snowshoveler; 22 Feb 19, 13:36.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post

                  The US was created by Europeans on European cultures,customs and laws for over 400 years itís made up of many different European cultures Whites of all cultures have mostly homogenized into one culture without some asking for special treatment some non European cultures havenít joined in,the US is turning into a multiculturalist society instead of the melting pot that has been the norm until recently since liberals and lefties have been trying to fundamentally change how America works for political gain.
                  Saying that America isnít a White country goes against your nature and history.
                  In 1790, out of a total population of 5.2 million, the US counted over 600,000 slaves. They worked not only on plantations, they constructed harbor defenses, they dug canals, they built most of Washington DC. Slaves were an integral part of the development of the United States from her very founding. To diminish their contributions, in basic terms, is essentially to lie about our past. To dismiss out of hand their descendants' interests today is to perpetuate injustice.

                  And just to put it in historical context, there was a time in this country when Irish were not viewed as "white."



                  In their turn Germans, Italians, and Eastern European Jews received the same kind of treatment. The Chinese were actually barred from the US by Federal law -- but only after hundreds of them had died building the Transcontinental Railroad. To tell their descendants not to "whiten up" is not only preposterous, it's frankly insulting. They were good enough to work tedious or hazardous occupations for little or no recompense -- but now they're not good enough to share in the bounty that they helped develop. Yeah, that's insulting.

                  Germany is a "white" country. Iceland is a "white" country. The United States is not a "white" country. The US is an American country -- in that America includes EVERYBODY who worked and fought, and in some cases died, to make America a truly great nation. To believe otherwise is to hearken back to the "good ole' days," when Klansman would strip black soldiers of their uniforms before lynching them. I was hoping that that was part of our past. Perhaps my hopes were premature.
                  I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                    In 1790, out of a total population of 5.2 million, the US counted over 600,000 slaves. They worked not only on plantations, they constructed harbor defenses, they dug canals, they built most of Washington DC. Slaves were an integral part of the development of the United States from her very founding. To diminish their contributions, in basic terms, is essentially to lie about our past. To dismiss out of hand their descendants' interests today is to perpetuate injustice.

                    And just to put it in historical context, there was a time in this country when Irish were not viewed as "white."



                    In their turn Germans, Italians, and Eastern European Jews received the same kind of treatment. The Chinese were actually barred from the US by Federal law -- but only after hundreds of them had died building the Transcontinental Railroad. To tell their descendants not to "whiten up" is not only preposterous, it's frankly insulting. They were good enough to work tedious or hazardous occupations for little or no recompense -- but now they're not good enough to share in the bounty that they helped develop. Yeah, that's insulting.

                    Germany is a "white" country. Iceland is a "white" country. The United States is not a "white" country. The US is an American country -- in that America includes EVERYBODY who worked and fought, and in some cases died, to make America a truly great nation. To believe otherwise is to hearken back to the "good ole' days," when Klansman would strip black soldiers of their uniforms before lynching them. I was hoping that that was part of our past. Perhaps my hopes were premature.
                    New European immigrants of different cultures were looked down on at first but they were accepted because they eventually fit into the American culture.
                    Blacks didnít want to be in the US now they constantly complain and whine about their past and arenít moving on from it and fitting in most arenít Nationalists,the Japanese were persecuted during WW2 they didnít ask for special treatment they moved on and thrived.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Most important to note that The USA is a free country. Crime is a worldwide issue. Any person whom criticizes someone based on their color or religion is by default an opponent of The USA and its ideals.

                      Somne Trump supporters think that Democrats are hypocrites, some Anti Trump folks think Trump supporters are hypocrites. The issue is straightforward, anyone that opposes inequality among man is a part of the problem. Let folks speak their minds and one can see whom supports liberal values and one can also see those that support violence and intolerance.

                      Most Americans stand by freedom, but we have some Americans Democrat and GOP that do openly criticize folks not based on their actions but on religion and looks. In the end the modern American problems which is mostly if not all related to poor jobs offered to our country and the downfall of the Middle and Upper class will be overcome. The USA has been through a far far greater test in WW2 when The USA along with its allies were victorious.
                      Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                      Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                      George S Patton

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                        In 1790, out of a total population of 5.2 million, the US counted over 600,000 slaves. They worked not only on plantations, they constructed harbor defenses, they dug canals, they built most of Washington DC. Slaves were an integral part of the development of the United States from her very founding. To diminish their contributions, in basic terms, is essentially to lie about our past. To dismiss out of hand their descendants' interests today is to perpetuate injustice.

                        And just to put it in historical context, there was a time in this country when Irish were not viewed as "white."



                        In their turn Germans, Italians, and Eastern European Jews received the same kind of treatment. The Chinese were actually barred from the US by Federal law -- but only after hundreds of them had died building the Transcontinental Railroad. To tell their descendants not to "whiten up" is not only preposterous, it's frankly insulting. They were good enough to work tedious or hazardous occupations for little or no recompense -- but now they're not good enough to share in the bounty that they helped develop. Yeah, that's insulting.

                        Germany is a "white" country. Iceland is a "white" country. The United States is not a "white" country. The US is an American country -- in that America includes EVERYBODY who worked and fought, and in some cases died, to make America a truly great nation. To believe otherwise is to hearken back to the "good ole' days," when Klansman would strip black soldiers of their uniforms before lynching them. I was hoping that that was part of our past. Perhaps my hopes were premature.
                        Totally agree That America is today a free country upon to all. As is modern day Germany and Sweden,


                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Germans

                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle-Eye_Cherry
                        Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                        Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                        George S Patton

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post
                          New European immigrants of different cultures were looked down on at first
                          That's putting it lightly: they were beaten, threatened, their institutions were attacked. The European immigrants were ultimately accepted because they made themselves either economically or militarily necessary, not because the Nativists changed their spots.

                          Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post
                          but they were accepted because they eventually fit into the American culture.
                          Roman Catholicism and Judaism fit into Protestant American culture? Corned beef, cabbage, spaghetti, pizza, and knishes are consistent with assimilation? The inclusion of countless Yiddish words into the modern American lexicon strikes you as Jews fitting in? Drunken revelry and public violence on Saint Patrick's Day is assimilation?

                          Or is it the wider culture changing to ACCOMMODATE the newcomers over time?

                          Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post
                          Blacks didnít want to be in the US now they constantly complain and whine about their past and arenít moving on from it and fitting in most arenít Nationalists
                          Colin Powell, the Harlem Hellfighters, the 761st Tank Battalion (the original "Black Panthers") and millions of other African-Americans who served the United States honorably from 1776 to the present would, I'm sure, be rather surprised to learn that they're not American nationalists.

                          Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post
                          the Japanese were persecuted during WW2 they didnít ask for special treatment they moved on and thrived.
                          Public Law 100-383 100th Congress

                          An Act To implement recomnndations of the Commission on Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians.

                          Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

                          SECTION 1. PURPOSES. The purposes of this Act are toó

                          (1) acknowledge the fundamental injustice of the evacuation, relocation, and internment of United States citizens and permanent resident aliens of Japanese ancestry during World War II;
                          (2) apologize on behalf of the people of the United States for the evacuation, relocation, and internment of such citizens and permanent resident aliens;
                          (3) provide for a public education fund to finance efforts to inform the public about the internment of such individuals so as to prevent the recurrence of any similar event;
                          (4) make restitution to those individuals of Japanese ancestry [FONT=serif]who were interned; . . . .

                          "Civil Rights Act of 1988," Government Printing Office
                          - emphasis mine

                          Maybe that $20,000 payment to detainees and their heirs didn't qualify as "special treatment." Guess you didn't know that Japanese-Americans fought against EO 9066's constitutional validity all the way to the US Supreme Court.

                          Your version of "history," is that what they teach in Canuck schools -- or did you come by it through some other means?
                          I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                            In 1790, out of a total population of 5.2 million, the US counted over 600,000 slaves. They worked not only on plantations, they constructed harbor defenses, they dug canals, they built most of Washington DC. Slaves were an integral part of the development of the United States from her very founding. To diminish their contributions, in basic terms, is essentially to lie about our past. To dismiss out of hand their descendants' interests today is to perpetuate injustice.

                            And just to put it in historical context, there was a time in this country when Irish were not viewed as "white."



                            In their turn Germans, Italians, and Eastern European Jews received the same kind of treatment. The Chinese were actually barred from the US by Federal law -- but only after hundreds of them had died building the Transcontinental Railroad. To tell their descendants not to "whiten up" is not only preposterous, it's frankly insulting. They were good enough to work tedious or hazardous occupations for little or no recompense -- but now they're not good enough to share in the bounty that they helped develop. Yeah, that's insulting.

                            Germany is a "white" country. Iceland is a "white" country. The United States is not a "white" country. The US is an American country -- in that America includes EVERYBODY who worked and fought, and in some cases died, to make America a truly great nation. To believe otherwise is to hearken back to the "good ole' days," when Klansman would strip black soldiers of their uniforms before lynching them. I was hoping that that was part of our past. Perhaps my hopes were premature.
                            After the US Civil War, Americans of all colors and religions found the American dream working the Steel and Auto Jobs. Those Americans that engaged in discrimination were overcame by the masses of Americans that stood for dignity. In the American past the jobs were better and the Middle and Upper classes were stronger. Henry Ford went on to eventually embrace the UAW finding solidarity in Union leaders.


                            AFRICAN-AMERICANS HAVE PLAYED A CRUCIAL ROLE IN THE UAWíS RICH HISTORY

                            https://uaw.org/solidarity-magazine/...-rich-history/


                            THE MAKING OF Black Detroit in the Age of Henry Ford attempts to map the transition from the Detroit Black communitys idolization of Henry Ford to its support of the UAWs successful 1941 campaign to represent the workers at Ford.

                            The second chapter outlines the changing needs of the Ford Motor Company (FMC) and the evolving views of Henry Ford. In the wake of the Bolshevik Revolution, Ford saw a Black work force as less open to radical socialist ideas than foreign-born workers. He paid Blacks a wage equal to whites and initially did not segregate them into the more onerous jobs.

                            In addition to working on the assembly line, Black men worked as crane operators, purchasers of raw materials, and in the company laboratories or drafting rooms. They were accepted into the apprenticeship program and became skilled electricians or tool-and-dye makers.




                            Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                            Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                            George S Patton

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                              That's putting it lightly: they were beaten, threatened, their institutions were attacked. The European immigrants were ultimately accepted because they made themselves either economically or militarily necessary, not because the Nativists changed their spots.



                              Roman Catholicism and Judaism fit into Protestant American culture? Corned beef, cabbage, spaghetti, pizza, and knishes are consistent with assimilation? The inclusion of countless Yiddish words into the modern American lexicon strikes you as Jews fitting in? Drunken revelry and public violence on Saint Patrick's Day is assimilation?

                              Or is it the wider culture changing to ACCOMMODATE the newcomers over time?



                              Colin Powell, the Harlem Hellfighters, the 761st Tank Battalion (the original "Black Panthers") and millions of other African-Americans who served the United States honorably from 1776 to the present would, I'm sure, be rather surprised to learn that they're not American nationalists.



                              - emphasis mine

                              Maybe that $20,000 payment to detainees and their heirs didn't qualify as "special treatment." Guess you didn't know that Japanese-Americans fought against EO 9066's constitutional validity all the way to the US Supreme Court.

                              Your version of "history," is that what they teach in Canuck schools -- or did you come by it through some other means?
                              What part of ďmostĒ Blacks canít you understand?
                              And what Blacks wouldnít want to fight the South during the civil war?
                              Japanese Canadians didnít get much compensation if any I heard it was the same in the US.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

                                After the US Civil War, Americans of all colors and religions found the American dream working the Steel and Auto Jobs.
                                How many "auto jobs" were available in the years immediately following the Civil War -- considering that the first automobile assembly line started production in 1902: thirty-seven years after Lee surrendered to Grant at Appomattox.
                                I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                                Comment

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