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  • #76
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

    Actually, illegals commit a whole raft of crimes, many non-violent felonies, in the process of being in the US illegally. Using a phony SSN or using a stolen one is a felony. Lying on government employment forms about your immigration status, using false official information like the SSN, is a felony. Identity theft is a felony. Not reporting income from employment or failing to file tax returns is a felony. Lying on any of these forms is perjury, a felony.
    We got tax cheats all over the world. Even some rich Americans and some politicians have been tax cheats. We got good and bad from all so called classes.

    Point is illegal immigrants are no more violent compared to regular American citizens. Let us always remember all men are equal...and we can see that historically speaking that ones color or religion has zero to do with a society's success or failure because success and failure is found from practically all walks of life.
    Last edited by Stonewall_Jack; 16 Feb 19, 21:37.
    Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
    Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

    George S Patton

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

      How about State Prison populations?

      Nothing at all wrong with having laws. Looks like we agree mostly.

      Numbers have been posted my friend,

      Researchers suggest that undocumented immigrants may be less likely to engage in serious criminal offending behavior because they seek to earn money and not to draw attention to themselves.

      http://oxfordre.com/criminology/view...190264079-e-93

      This is also about common sense. Look at our countries history our jails have been filled with white and black Americans from the Mob and Gangs. Men all over the world beat their wives, crime is a worldwide issue. Sure its illegal for an illegal immigrant to enter the USA but just because some is an illegal does not make them violent. So to try and say that illegal immigrants bring more crime is totally wrong and its anti American its the Anti Americans trying to get you to buy their ideas.

      And biggest of all, where their is freedom and wealth like in the USA everyone will be better off. Though our country has been slipping for some time. Point is imagine if Honduras(there is hope btw for Honduras as I know some of their students studying at our Universities whom want to go back home and improve their country), El Salvador, Cuba, The Dominican Republic and more had the type of job offers that the USA sort of has today and once used to have abundantly, well the situation would then see Central and South American people not leaving their countries for a better life.

      I agree that the situation is very bad for some people in Central and South America...Now I have not taken issue with you but otoh some Trump supporters and perhaps even some anti Trump people try and put one religious group or someone based on their color ahead or behind of a different group so that is a issue.

      To my main point there is no need to try and say for example South Americans have a bad work ethic because factually speaking some of those people are great Christians , well educated and many have a great work ethnic.
      State prison populations are the same way. I pointed out the ADOC population. Oklahoma's and some others that track illegals are the same way. The problem is, most states don't track illegal immigrants in their system as such.

      The researchers are wrong on that. I think that most that say that cherry pick their data. Others conflate legal immigration with illegal immigration to dilute the seriousness of criminal activity.
      That said, if you look at the illegal immigrant population, it is not consistent with a normal society's population. The majority of illegal immigrants are male and between 16 and 35. Very recently, the US one has seen more children and women, along with families trying to enter illegally, but that hasn't been the norm.
      As you might guess, a largely young male teen and adult population is going to have more criminal activity.

      I also think that part of the problem today is that there are agitprops and other politically motivated groups that are organizing and encouraging people in countries like Guatemala and Honduras to attempt to enter the US legally or illegally. Pueblos sin Fronteras and the radical, Communist, Leftist party Libre are two such agitators. Without these political action groups, I think far fewer people would be attempting to come.

      While poverty is certainly a problem in both Guatemala and Honduras, neither has criminal activity or gangs on the levels found in some US cities. Therefore, I think that political operatives are talking up people into coming instead.

      I also don't think most-- yes there is some degree of this-- people are motivated against illegal immigration on the basis of nationality or race. I think most are motivated by wanting less crime.

      Comment


      • #78
        TAG 93 % of all prisoners in the USA are male.

        Does that make males bad? Looks like males are "over represented" in the prison population

        Demographic and offense characteristics While the majority (93%) of prisoners were male, there were more than twice as many white females (48,900 prisoners) as black (20,300) or Hispanic (19,300) females in state and federal prison in 2016. However, the imprisonment rate for black females (96 per 100,000 black female residents) was almost double the rate for white females (49 per 100,000 white female residents). Black-to-white racial disparity was also observed among males. Black males ages 18 to 19 were 11.8 times more likely to be imprisoned than white males of the same age.

        https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p16_sum.pdf



        Yes we can see we do have alot of black folks in prison. As for illegal immigrants, the issue is many of them are in jail not for a violent crime or a crime against humanity as the honorable States and Empires saw it..but are in jail due to a man made law where upon someone whom illegal enters the USA is at risk of being jailed.


        8 U.S. Code § 1325.Improper entry by alien



        )Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts

        Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.


        https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325


        Laws have always been debated, things can change in the future where upon the USA can pay homage to the European Catholic and Protestant states that took interest in different types of people. Christopher Columbus and Francis Drake brought their Kingdoms diversity. Both men were respected by those that they encounterd on exploration missions. Columbus with the Taino and Drake with the African Cimarron people.

        Btw what are we as Americans to say to this? Is it right as current US laws says to jail people simply for illegally entering the USA, this is wrong IMO and there has to be another way. If someone is in the USA illegally but working a good job they ought feel safe coming out to authorities perhaps on youtube to say

        " hey im a good man I want to become a legal citizen you can look at my background I have committed no crimes."

        And as a result the so called illegal in the USA can feel safe coming out as illegal without worrying about having to be jailed. There may be a small back tax instituted though.

        The USA should have a more open immigration policy make it easier for folks to come to the USA. Christianity has created the most successful people in the world, the most free people are from Christian countries, even the ones in South America and Central America while their Governments have corruption issues the people are honorable and have good family values. Those from Central and South America will have a beer and dog with you at a baseball game.

        To the point about how certain groups are under or over represented when it comes to w/e stat we are talking of...we know race is not a legit topic as pointed out by a 1951 UN report, there are no races as humans are one group. Also a prison that might identify a prisoner as African American could actually be identifying someone whom self identifies as white especially if they hail from North Africa. And second the issue is poverty , where there is poverty and injustice there tends to be more crime. In the American past the inner cities were better off because many of those folks worked a good Steel or Auto job for 30+ years.
        Last edited by Stonewall_Jack; 16 Feb 19, 20:28.
        Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
        Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

        George S Patton

        Comment


        • #79
          I remember my friend from Iraq whom was accepted legally here in the USA...he is an American now. Anyway one day we were talking about the Civil war and I asked him hey who was it that led the Union and freed the Slaves in the US Civil War...he said oh thats Lincoln. I said you got it friend! And we can realize Wow, that is the story of America isnt it. My Iraqi friend does not speak much English but he is a great worker he knows alot about the mechanics of Automobiles. The earliest Americans of the late 18th century made plaques welcoming people of all religions as is the American way.
          Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
          Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

          George S Patton

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
            TAG 93 % of all prisoners in the USA are male.

            Does that make males bad? Looks like males are "over represented" in the prison population

            Demographic and offense characteristics While the majority (93%) of prisoners were male, there were more than twice as many white females (48,900 prisoners) as black (20,300) or Hispanic (19,300) females in state and federal prison in 2016. However, the imprisonment rate for black females (96 per 100,000 black female residents) was almost double the rate for white females (49 per 100,000 white female residents). Black-to-white racial disparity was also observed among males. Black males ages 18 to 19 were 11.8 times more likely to be imprisoned than white males of the same age.

            https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p16_sum.pdf



            Yes we can see we do have alot of black folks in prison. As for illegal immigrants, the issue is many of them are in jail not for a violent crime or a crime against humanity as the honorable States and Empires saw it..but are in jail due to a man made law where upon someone whom illegal enters the USA is at risk of being jailed.
            That doesn't change that about 55 to 60% of all illegals are male. It used to be higher.

            As for those in prison, most are there for not only illegal re-entry, a felony, but also for a felony act such as drug possession, or other criminal felony. That is to say, they were arrested for a serious felony then found to be illegally in the country, and had been previously deported.

            Blacks in prison are an entirely separate issue. That makes your statements little more than red herrings on that issue.

            As for laws-- all laws are manmade. Some are more common and universal than others, but that doesn't mean you have some innate Right to break them as you please or to cherry pick which you follow.

            I consider any illegal caught muling drugs into the US as having committed a violent felony, especially if that drug is fentanyl. I'd include in that heroin, and meth. All three are insidious in their effect on users.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

              That doesn't change that about 55 to 60% of all illegals are male. It used to be higher.

              As for those in prison, most are there for not only illegal re-entry, a felony, but also for a felony act such as drug possession, or other criminal felony. That is to say, they were arrested for a serious felony then found to be illegally in the country, and had been previously deported.

              Blacks in prison are an entirely separate issue. That makes your statements little more than red herrings on that issue.

              As for laws-- all laws are manmade. Some are more common and universal than others, but that doesn't mean you have some innate Right to break them as you please or to cherry pick which you follow.

              I consider any illegal caught muling drugs into the US as having committed a violent felony, especially if that drug is fentanyl. I'd include in that heroin, and meth. All three are insidious in their effect on users.
              Thats not my argument in full my friend. Prison systems often breaks folks down based on made man invented labels such as color or African American, European American, even Illegal Alien. Point is that one that identifies as white might be identified as black or African American by a Prison.

              On the Prison population. If an argument of over or under representing is going to be brought up, what is one to say to the overwhelming male population of our prisons. Does that mean that men are the problem?

              And whom filled our prisons mostly in the past? White men my friend. In the 1800s and 1900s whites filled our prisons, sure there were Hispanics and perhaps some Chinese train workers. I dont think we disagree on much. The main point is one can not say that an illegal immigrant is more dangerous compared to a American citizen..That is how ISIL and the Third Reich talked. This is just common sense at this point. In Central and South America Christian culture leads the way. Yet it is the USA with the worlds largest prison population.

              When Florence’s father was born in the 1850s, the state prison population was largely white.

              https://theconversation.com/prison-r...ginnings-96612


              That does not mean 1850s USA white Americans were more dangerous compared to other groups of the world. And as for illegal immigrants, source upon source from different groups show that illegals are no more dangerous compared to regular American citizens.


              https://www.cato.org/blog/new-report...n-shortcomings
              Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
              Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

              George S Patton

              Comment


              • #82
                It's easy to do with illegal immigrants. Either they have an INS hold and / or order of deportation or they don't. If they have those, they're in the US illegally regardless of the charges they're in prison for. Their race makes zero difference on this. We can say whether illegal immigrants commit more crime than legal immigrants and citizens. First, since they are in the country illegally they've committed at least one crime. If they have a job, they've committed two. If they've used false id to get that job, that's several more crimes.
                Splitting hairs about which crimes they may or may not have committed, or only counting "violent" crimes, is simply spurious and an attempt to soften what is otherwise criminal activity.

                If anything, those that do that sort of thing are actually pro-open border and pro illegal immigration by default. They obviously will tolerate some degree of both.

                Comment


                • #83
                  There was a large reported drug bust at the US border this week. It was one of the largest hard drug busts at least recently. And it occurred at a port of entry.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    You and your fkn FACTS!.

                    Don't you know by now that facts are not what Trump or his supporters run on.
                    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                    you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Trump and his supporters, including those on this forum, wouldn't know a fact if it bit them on the ass.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Massena View Post
                        Trump and his supporters, including those on this forum, wouldn't know a fact if it bit them on the ass.
                        Oh you want to talk facts, okay why don'’t you provide me with the facts surrounding your claim that Trump has broken the law and violated the constitution.
                        So which laws has he been charged with breaking and what part of the constitution has he violated, exactly. I'’ll wait for an answer, again.
                        Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Tsar View Post

                          Oh you want to talk facts, okay why don'’t you provide me with the facts surrounding your claim that Trump has broken the law and violated the constitution.
                          So which laws has he been charged with breaking and what part of the constitution has he violated, exactly. I'’ll wait for an answer, again.
                          The violation, if you're referring to the 'emergency' is from Article I, Section 7 of the Constitution. And violating the Constitution is breaking the law, as the Constitution is the 'law of the land.'

                          I'm certain you can find that portion of the Constitution on your own.

                          And if you're following the news, the commentary is talking about executive overreach, an imperial presidency, a lack of respect for, and violation of, the Constitution, and that lawsuits are being filed to oppose this overreach by Trump.

                          https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/17/polit...ncy/index.html
                          Last edited by Massena; 17 Feb 19, 12:33.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Actually I first asked you this question months ago when I got tired of you constantly claiming that Trump was breaking the law and that he had violated the constitution. But if you wish to use this as an example which court has ruled that he is guilty of executive overreach? Has the SCOTUS made a ruling that he has?

                            There was a time when someone was innocent until proven guilty I guess you don’'t live in that time or place. Tell me what does it feel like to always worry that someone will declare you guilty of a crime and you having no way to show that you haven'’t broken a law?
                            Last edited by Tsar; 08 Mar 19, 19:58.
                            Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

                            Comment

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