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The U.S. Supreme Court and the Second Amendment

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  • The U.S. Supreme Court and the Second Amendment

    Let the fight begin,,

    Feb. 10--New York City restricts the ability of gun owners to transport their weapons outside the city, and this fall, the U.S. Supreme Court will decide if those rules violate the Second Amendment.
    The case has the potential to topple an assortment of local and state gun laws across the United States. The impact on California, which has more gun regulations on the books than any other state, could be volcanic.
    The reason state and local gun laws are at risk, or, put another way, the reason that gun rights could be strengthened, is that the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment, ratified in 1791, has only recently been interpreted by the Supreme Court to protect an individual's right to keep and bear arms. And it was even more recently that the justices declared Second Amendment rights to be "fundamental" to liberty and therefore binding on the states through the Fourteenth Amendment, which bars any state from denying liberty to any person without due process of law.
    https://www.officer.com/tactical/fir...008C5566189I5T
    Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
    Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

  • #2
    A very important thing in such a ruling will be the Court's definition of "People."

    As defined during the 1700s. people was considered to be individuals that had formed a group,community, whatever. Liberals on the court use the modern definition of people as a group made up of individuals. If the latter is allowed to stand, only the group, such as the State, city, township, village, would retain the right to have guns, not the individuals that belong to those groups. That would be in the form of the National Guard, State and local law enforcement, and the security details for the politicians.

    Once Second Amendment rights are stripped from the individual, First, Fourth, and all other rights where the word people are used will soon follow.
    “Breaking News,”

    “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

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    • #3
      Given the Court's recent ruling forcing Illinois to issue concealed carry permits, I would say that New York is going to have a tough time.

      The key is that New York is not just impacting the Second Amendment, it is attempting to dictate to citizens when and where they may move real property. What if they said you could not move your privately owned car, TV, Computer, or jewelry beyond points X, Y, or Z? Automobiles are several times more inherently violent than firearms, so they can't stand on a public safety issue.
      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
        Given the Court's recent ruling forcing Illinois to issue concealed carry permits, I would say that New York is going to have a tough time.

        The key is that New York is not just impacting the Second Amendment, it is attempting to dictate to citizens when and where they may move real property. What if they said you could not move your privately owned car, TV, Computer, or jewelry beyond points X, Y, or Z? Automobiles are several times more inherently violent than firearms, so they can't stand on a public safety issue.
        Excellent point.

        Illinois is now trying to drive gun stores out of business by forcing them to install expensive surveillance systems and other measures to prevent straw purchases. They won't stop any straw purchases, but they will force people out of business.

        Next on the books is a waiting period to buy ammo and a requirement to allow the government access to your social media accounts if you wish to buy a gun. Even the ACLU is opposed to that one, but it won't stop them.

        Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

        Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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        • #5
          I've always been under the impression that when it concerns NYC/NY state...2nd AD issues are as a general rule a lost cause. However, I am curious about the opening line:

          Feb. 10--New York City restricts the ability of gun owners to transport their weapons outside the city, and this fall, the U.S. Supreme Court will decide if those rules violate the Second Amendment.
          Bold text mine - Who exactly will this impact, given it is nearly impossible to obtain a permit in NYC in the first place!?

          No...what I find very concerning is what is being proposed in Illinois right now is a bill which would require law enforcement to view the social media accounts of all perspective gun buyers. This is such a slippery slope it makes the Disney on Ice shows look like sure footing.


          edit- oops, looks like Cambronne beat me to it!
          You'll live, only the best get killed.

          -General Charles de Gaulle

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post

            Even the ACLU is opposed to that one, but it won't stop them.
            Are they actually opposed to it...or are they just going to look at it and see where it goes? This is funny talk from a so-called "rights" organization which has historically turned a blind eye to the erosion of 2nd AD rights except in the most extreme examples like this one....but it doesn't necessarily mean they'll do anything about it either.

            You'll live, only the best get killed.

            -General Charles de Gaulle

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            • #7
              Originally posted by asterix View Post
              I've always been under the impression that when it concerns NYC/NY state...2nd AD issues are as a general rule a lost cause. However, I am curious about the opening line:



              Bold text mine - Who exactly will this impact, given it is nearly impossible to obtain a permit in NYC in the first place!?

              No...what I find very concerning is what is being proposed in Illinois right now is a bill which would require law enforcement to view the social media accounts of all perspective gun buyers. This is such a slippery slope it makes the Disney on Ice shows look like sure footing.


              edit- oops, looks like Cambronne beat me to it!
              I do think the ACLU is actually opposed to it, but haven't seen their official position.
              I think that even they recognize the slippery slope that makes the exercise of one right (2nd A) dependent on scrutiny of our exercise of another (1st Amendment).

              The answer to your other question is that it will only impact legal gun owners.
              It will serve to discourage them from owning guns, which is the whole point.

              In Illinois, when the politicians are asked about Chicago's high murder rate despite the heavy regulation of guns, they claim that the guns are all coming from Indiana.
              Now, in order to justify more regulation of Illinois gun shops they claim that 40% of guns used in crimes are legally purchased here.
              There are layers of falsehoods in that claim and the local media never bothers to question it.

              Per the DOJ the numbers are different
              Among prisoners who possessed a gun during their offense, 90% did not obtain it from a retail source.
              https://therightscoop.com/doj-majori...ned-illegally/
              Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

              Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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